308 Semi-Auto

[lonewolf]

I looked at the Saiga, but haven't shot one. Looks like an oversize AK. Less than $600, if I recall.....

[Carry-a-Kimber]

My wife bought me a Bushmaster ORC 308 for Christmas and I couldn't be happier with it. It is based on the DPMS LAR-308, has a 16'' barrel, collapsable stock, and comes without sights. I topped mine with Magpul MBUS, and an Eotech for hogs, but plan on putting something with some magnification on in the near future. I have put about 500 rounds through it without an issue and it is quiet accurate. They can be had for less than $1000.00, they run PMags, lots of bolt on goodies for them, not too heavy, fairly compact, I love it.

[markthenewf]

Interesting turn of events.

I bring it to the gun shop and get them to clear the gun (bolt was jammed out of battery with empty case stuck in the chamber). When this was done, a primer falls out of the bolt carrier group. That particular day I shot about 15 remington white box and about 30 of my reloads. Two rounds were missing a primer (from what I recovered) and these were my reloads which used federal once-fired brass and CCI large rifle primers. This points towards hot loads pushing out the primers which jammed up the action. Note that I can't see any signs of overpressure on the primers in my other fired reloads.

But wait, there's more.....

All the reloads were 150 gr nosler green tips with charges either at the minimum or middle charge of Varget. I always use a medium taper crimp with a Lee factory crimp die. Since I was working up a load, all the charges were initially calibrated on a digital and manual scale so I absolutely know that the charges were not hot. I have also noted that the cases have a very distinctive ejector mark. It's deep enough such that I can actually feel it if I run my thumb over it. So here's my thought: is it possible that the ejector isn't compressing properly and slewing the round off a smidgen to one side. This would result in the base of the cartridge not being fully supported at the bolt face. Would a partially bearing back face of a cartridge result in a primer being able to back-out under less-than-max pressures?

I'd appreciate any input anyone might have. I am also going to contact RRA, nosler, and Hogden and see if they've got some idea of what's up. Either way, the rifle is going to go for a checkup to RRA as soon as I can get to it. I can only hope that it's a faulty ejector causing all my heartaches with this gun.

[74novaman]

I looked at the Saiga, but haven't shot one. Looks like an oversize AK. Less than $600, if I recall.....

Biggest problem with the .308 saigas are magazine availability/cost.

[RECIT]

I don't think the Saiga will hit the accuracy mark the OP is looking for. The FNAR is HEAVY but darn accurate. Yeah the mags are expensive but if its not going to battle do you really need ten mags for it? I have LOTS of mags don't get me wrong but they are not necessary. You really only need one or two.

The FN FAL would be a good choice but like stated by Andy its not a super long range precision rifle. The G3/HK91 type file I think falls in the same category as the FAL. Reliable, rugged, accurate enough for WAR.

[The Annoyed Man]

Of the 3 I've shot, I really like the M1A the best. Mainly because I love the sights. Only reason I don't buy one is because I don't like the options for mounting a scope AND I think they look funny with scopes (kinda like a lever gun with a scope).

Who you callin' funny lookin'?



They just get better lookin'.

[markthenewf]

Well, RRA and me had a looong discussion. At first they wanted to blame my reloads and I wanted to blame the bolt. However, after 20 minutes of friendly discussion and mild sparring, we've put the seed of doubt in each others minds. The upper and bolt is going back to them to be checked out. As stupid as this sounds, I'm am hoping they find a problem with the bolt ejector or something. I hope to get it shipped off tomorrow, so I guess now I get to see if RRA support is as good as I was led to believe. My fingers, toes, and eyes are crossed.

In addition I've ordered some WWB and have some M118LR brass available for purchase. This should provide a good base for testing of both the gun mechanics and my reloads.

[markthenewf]

Who you callin' funny lookin'?

I recall when you first got that thing. It was not long after that I got the Basset Machine scope mount. It's quite similar to your Sadlak mount.

The only thing I really didn't like about the M1A (not including the hammer dying on my own) was the lack of a forward rail or pin for a bi-pod. Before I sent the rifle back to SA, I went over to a buddy's house (he has a lathe and drill press) and I bedded a short rail up front with screws and marine-grade epoxy. Worked like a charm. I think it was the one with the attached swivel that you can get from Fulton Armory.

Actually, let me add one other thing I didn't like about my set up: Harris bipod. It felt cheap and rickety as compared to the GG&G I've got on my AR now.

I do miss my M1A, but that was pure bull that SA gave me about not being able to replace with hammer with a proper GI part (as they did for you). I'm just done with SA from here on out after that very, very poor experience.

[RHenriksen]

Well, RRA and me had a looong discussion. At first they wanted to blame my reloads and I wanted to blame the bolt. However, after 20 minutes of friendly discussion and mild sparring, we've put the seed of doubt in each others minds. The upper and bolt is going back to them to be checked out. As stupid as this sounds, I'm am hoping they find a problem with the bolt ejector or something. I hope to get it shipped off tomorrow, so I guess now I get to see if RRA support is as good as I was led to believe. My fingers, toes, and eyes are crossed.

In addition I've ordered some WWB and have some M118LR brass available for purchase. This should provide a good base for testing of both the gun mechanics and my reloads.

Interesting, I was going to offer to swap bcg @ the range if you're near Houston; I have the same rifle, haven't had problems yet in the few hundred rounds its seen so far.

[markthenewf]

Thanks for the offer, but I'd be real paranoid on using anyone else's gear with either the upper, lower, BCG or any combination I have!

Update: I received a shipping notice yesterday so I called RRA. I asked the up front if there was an issue found and what was done to fix it. I was told that the chamber was reamed & polished and that the ejector was replaced. The guy I spoke with said he wasn't a tech and was only reading the RMA info and couldn't really tell me what tests/checks were done or if these fixes were just blind fixes.

The rifle is due in on Friday, so I might be able to get down to the range this weekend and test all this out. Truth be told, it'll take several range outings before I can confirm if it's actually been fixed. I really don't know if I'm interested in keeping it, though as I've had such bad luck with it.

[markthenewf]

So I got the rifle back. RRA says they reamed and polished the chamber and replaced the extractor and test fired it.

Good enough. Range trip this afternoon: Not good.

I ran about 130 rounds through it. Out of 100 winchester white box, I had at 5 feed failures of which 3 resulted in all-out jams. The jams were easy enough to clear, though. 6 of 40 of my nosler ballistic tip reloads which used a mix of winchester and remington brass also had similar troubles. All occurrences were using RRA mags and in various states of rifle temperature (first to second round, 10 of 15, second to last out of 20).

I give up. I don't trust the rifle as far as I can throw it, which almost happened today! AND of everything I shot today (1911, CZ452, Garand, LAR-8) it was the most difficult and intensive one to clean! After all this, I'm not too impressed with the AR platform.

Anyways, thanks for your input, gang. I believe I'll start looking around at the Keltec RFB, FNAR, or perhaps a FN PBR (yeah, a bolt-action). I think the FAL is too costly for what it provides (~$1200 for a 2 MOA rifle).

[G.A. Heath]

So I got the rifle back. RRA says they reamed and polished the chamber and replaced the extractor and test fired it.

Good enough. Range trip this afternoon: Not good.

I ran about 130 rounds through it. Out of 100 winchester white box, I had at 5 feed failures of which 3 resulted in all-out jams. The jams were easy enough to clear, though. 6 of 40 of my nosler ballistic tip reloads which used a mix of winchester and remington brass also had similar troubles. All occurrences were using RRA mags and in various states of rifle temperature (first to second round, 10 of 15, second to last out of 20).

I give up. I don't trust the rifle as far as I can throw it, which almost happened today! AND of everything I shot today (1911, CZ452, Garand, LAR-8) it was the most difficult and intensive one to clean! After all this, I'm not too impressed with the AR platform.

Anyways, thanks for your input, gang. I believe I'll start looking around at the Keltec RFB, FNAR, or perhaps a FN PBR (yeah, a bolt-action). I think the FAL is too costly for what it provides (~$1200 for a 2 MOA rifle).

If you don't like cleaning the RRA, then I suggest you stay away from the FNAR. I love my FNAR, but it is a pain to clean.

[The Annoyed Man]

Hey Mark,

In your OP, you suggested that the new rifle doesn't have to be semi-auto. Have you given thought to the Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle?

http://ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

MSRP is $995.00, which means you'll find it for less than that. If they made a left-handed version of that rifle, I'd snap one up for myself. Your main problem would be your stipulation that the new rifle must accept your 10x mil dot scope. This rifle would require a long relief scout type of scope. But other than that, this seems like a pretty neat rifle to me.

[markthenewf]

That looks interesting. I'm pretty sure that LaRue would have a set of cantilever QD rings or something that would allow me to use my current scope. However, I looked further into this rig and it's a very short barrel. Additionally, that's pretty much a sucktastic fixed rear sight. I also don't see any way of mounting a bipod to it. Let's face it, there is a necessity for most of us using 308 at range for an adjustable sight, optics, and a bi-pod.

I looked at a FNAR today. It seems to be a tad heavy. Additionally it has no method of putting irons on it.... well, ok, I suppose I could get a sight base or short rail added to the barrel. There's no threading on the barrel end as well, so any type of attachment is out of the question. Also, it's $1500, which is more than I think it's worth.

It's beginning to seem that no rifle out there will meet my basic requirements other than the two I've decided are thugs in disguise.