AK47 + Mossberg ATR vs Saiga .308 or DPMS .308

[uthornsfan]

So I have been searching hi and low for what will be my next purchase. I really love the thought of a .308 Hunting/Personal Protection (Battle Rifle) if the poo hits the fan situation arises. However I am realistic and know 7.62x51mm/.308 ammo is about twice the cost of 7.62x39mm ammo. Also I would assume that in the post apocolypse 7.62x39mm will be easier to come by.

All that being said what are your thoughts / opinions on the AK47 & Mossberg ATR (in .308) combo vs just a single Saiga .308 or DPMS in .308

When I say hunting it would be light duty Deer(maybe) and most likely hog hunting in central Texas.

[CJATE]

I went with 308 over 223 or7.62x39 so that I could get hunting rounds most anywhere. Mine is a hunting Rifel that I cut paper with from time to time

I went with a off the shelf DPMS AR-10, as you can't really build a simpe AR-10 for less. I'd have built it if I was after somthing unique.

[big 54r]

The Ak/ATR combo would do what you want but then you would have to stock 2 calibers...
.308 would most likely be easier to find in the scenario you list...imho
although x39 would also be scavengeable.

All that said the price for the combo or the Dpms .308 is not that far behind Fal so save awhile longer and get a Fal or a PTR 91
over the AR-10 style rifle. The AR-10 type may be more accurate but not nearly as durable and mags are cheaper for the 2 I list.
This is just my opinion after shooting all 3 extensively so ymmv.....and take this advice for what you paid for it! lol

[jeeperbryan]

I'd go with the AK47 and buy a few thousand rounds of surplus ammo. Just skip the Mossberg, Saiga, and DPMS altogether.

[74novaman]

Don't buy any rifle or caliber assuming you'll be able to resupply from others if the a problem arises. If Katrina taught us anything, it is that counting on resupply from police or military because you're one of the "good guys" is a laughable joke. If stuff truly gets bad, the only thing you'll be able to depend on is whatever you have stocked up.

As for your rifle choices, it kind of depends. If you want a a problem arises rifle that can also be used to hunt occasionally, people hunt deer and hogs with AKs regularly. Do you live in town? Are you planning on bugging in? Then a .308 rifle isn't really practical at all. If I was in a bug in situation in my neighborhood, my longest shot would be ~100 yards. That makes the .308 just completely impractical, and is why I own AKs. Now if I had 40 acres I was living on out in the country, the .308 would get a far more serious look.

So if you were in town, I'd get an AK (or two, following the whole 2 is 1, 1 is none idea) and one or two of those 1260 round surplus boxes and get proficient with the AK. Later on, if you want one for fun, you can invest in a .308.

Out in the country, I think you'd be best off going with the saiga or DPMS .308. That way you get a bit of reach out and touch someone range, but something that can also be used up close if necessary.

[uthornsfan]

I had a feeling most people would say AK..

Now what do I look for if I decide to go with an AK?

[74novaman]

I had a feeling most people would say AK..

Now what do I look for if I decide to go with an AK?

That depends....

The first choice you have to make is caliber. 7.62x39(AK-47) or 5.45x39(AK-74)? I personally prefer the 7.62 for an AK because it penetrates. If you need to punch through a car door or some other cover, it can do it. That said, most people view the 5.45 as slightly more accurate, and it also has lighter recoil.

The next choice is stock: Fixed, Underfolder, Sidefolder. I personally have 2 sidefolders because I like the ability to carry it out to my car without it looking like I"m carrying a gun out to my car. You can get some nice sidefolders that provide good cheek weld, etc. You can also get some that are just a wire and have zero cheek weld, but are very very compact (like my AMD-65). Underfolders have the reputation of being compact but not providing the most comfortable shooting platform (no cheek weld) My next gun will probably be a fixed stock just to have a classic though.

From there we can discuss brands, etc. Good luck in your hunt!!

[uthornsfan]

I would love a side folding 4 or 6 position stock. Some rails up front for flashlight, laser etc. etc Also a decent mounting system for some optics. 7.62x39 would be my choice.

I want something reliable with decent accuracy to 300 yards...

[74novaman]

I would love a side folding 4 or 6 position stock. Some rails up front for flashlight, laser etc. etc Also a decent mounting system for some optics. 7.62x39 would be my choice.

I want something reliable with decent accuracy to 300 yards...

Sound like you should go the Saiga route and do the conversion yourself then. That's what I did on my first AK and I love that gun.

Places make rear receiver blocks that you can attach AR style stocks to (i assume you're talking about an M4 style stock when you say 4-6 position) as well as a folding mechanism, and midwest industries makes a great quad rail handguard that you can attach anything you can dream of to.

Here's a couple of AR style stock converted Saigas for you to drool over from the Saiga forum:




That's my recommendation, at least.

[uthornsfan]

Me likey

[RECIT]

The after thought addition of a side folding stock is not the best looking and feeling way to go in my opinion. I would look for a rifle that originally came with a side folder and install a different folding/block mechanism that will accept an AR15 type buffer tube/receiver extension. If not you have to purchase a folding mechanism that just does not fit flush and feels a little wobbly to me. The pics posted above are of rifles that originally came with folding stocks and not the after though I mentioned earlier...

here is the preferred method and look http://ee.ar15.com/uploadImages/2009070 ... 0_File.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here is the method I do not care for http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/ ... /AK_03.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[74novaman]

If not you have to purchase a folding mechanism that just does not fit flush and feels a little wobbly to me. The pics posted above are of rifles that originally came with folding stocks and not the after though I mentioned earlier...

Sorry, but you're wrong. The rifle pictured above is a Saiga which originally comes set up for a fixed buttstock. I agree, the external block like the one you have pictured is ugly and out of place.

However, as I mentioned, there are several vendors who sell internal receiver blocks which can be made to fit flush and lock up solidly on a Saiga. That is what I have on mine. It took a little fitting and work to get the block flush, but my stock feels as solid as a fixed when its locked up now.

[big 54r]

hey 74 did that MI rail come that color or did you do that yourself?
It looks great.

Also to the op...if you go the AK route definitely learn how to properly use the AK's tangent rear sight or replace with a TechSight rear.
I love AK's!

[74novaman]

hey 74 did that MI rail come that color or did you do that yourself?
It looks great.

Also to the op...if you go the AK route definitely learn how to properly use the AK's tangent rear sight or replace with a TechSight rear.
I love AK's!

Not my AK. Stolen from the Saiga forum, so I don't have any other info on it for ya, sorry.

When it comes to AR stuff on AKs, I tend to agree with this guy:


But the OP wanted to know about the options, so I obliged him.

[uthornsfan]

I PM'd the owner of that AK and here is what he had to say.

Midwest Industries FDe **AK** not the Sagia handguard,
Fully converted front end with parts from Markw
Bulgarian 24MM Front sight block
Bulgarian AK Gas Tube
Bulgarian lower handguard retainer
Magpul RVG
Magpul CTR (I have a FDE one on the way)
Magpul MIAD
Ace AK-AR grip converter
CSS rear adapter
Ace side folder and buffer tube adapter.
Krebs Custom AK brake
Tapco G2 trigger group (ground for bolt hold down)
CSS bullet guide