Keith B wrote:Carrying of any weapon other than a handgun with a CHL is a UCW charge.
NOTE TO ADD: While 46.02 speocifies handgun, but not long gun, I am sure you would be charged with UCW and the Judge would more than likely agree.
What would they charge you with? According to §46.02:
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club [snip]
Nowhere in the penal code is carrying a long gun, either with or without a CHL, prohibited (ETA--except in the places mentioned in §46.03, where all firearms are prohibited).
Last edited by hirundo82 on Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." Barack Obama, 12/20/2007
ELB wrote:Legally speaking, I am doubtful this would really fall under your CHL -- I think the CHL statutes pretty clearly deal with handguns. Is there a law against carrying a concealed rifle, shotgun, or AOW? Dunno, no time to research.
No law against carrying a rifle or shotgun, open or concealed. The AOW distinction doesn't exist in Texas law.
I'm not sure what something like the Serbu Shorty would be considered--I think the most likely possibility is that it would be considered a short-barreled shotgun, but I could also make an argument for considering it a handgun under Texas law ("any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand"). If an AR-15 pistol, with a reciever originally designed for a rifle but built with a short barrel and no stock, is considered a handgun under Texas law, why shouldn't a shotgun reciever with the same characteristics be the same way.
Last edited by hirundo82 on Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." Barack Obama, 12/20/2007
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Jesus was not politically correct, therefore I refuse to be
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic-TN
ELB wrote:Legally speaking, I am doubtful this would really fall under your CHL -- I think the CHL statutes pretty clearly deal with handguns. Is there a law against carrying a concealed rifle, shotgun, or AOW? Dunno, no time to research.
No law against carrying a rifle or shotgun, open or concealed. The AOW distinction doesn't exist in Texas law.
I'm not sure what something like the Serbu Shorty would be considered--I think the most likely possibility is that it would be considered a short-barreled shotgun, but I could also make an argument for considering it a handgun under Texas law ("any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand"). If an AR-15 pistol, with a reciever originally designed for a rifle but built with a short barrel and no stock, is considered a handgun under Texas law, why shouldn't a shotgun reciever with the same characteristics be the same way.
I think you nailed it. There is no AOW classification in Texas law. Certain (federal) National Firearms Act classified AOW's may fall under the definition of a "zip gun", though my take on the Serbu is that it would either be a "short-barreled firearm" or handgun. If you have a CHL, it doesn't really matter...
If it's a handgun then your CHL provides a 46.15 (non-applicability) defense to prosecution. If it's NOT a handgun, then you are not breaking the (UCW) law by carrying it, as 46.02 doesn't prohibit it, any more than it prohibits carrying a pencil.
I asked the same question some time ago about carrying my MAC10/9 machine pistol. Under federal law, it is a machinegun. Apparently under Texas law it is not a handgun, despite being (arguably) pistol sized and concealable.
There is supposedly case law supporting this for someone who was carrying a machine pistol pre-CHL and was acquitted at appeal, when it was determined that his gun was not a handgun, therefore not subject to 46.02, any more than a rifle would be.
Still, it doesn't matter. It's either a handgun and you can carry it w/ your CHL, or not and you can carry it anyway.
Last edited by ScottDLS on Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
Thanks for the good discussion on this....I have posed this question to DPS...lets see what they have to say about it.....
Notwithstanding the practically of carrying such a weapon as the serbu shorty, I think that it is legal, based on the affirmative defense of having to get NFA paper on this......somewhere in section 46 i think it touches on prohibited weapons and the defenses to same......will look at it a little closer......
I do already have a Judge and it doesn't recoil more than any .45 I have shot previously.......and for close quarters shooting I like it because I can cover an entire doorway with the shot spread @ 10 feet.....it is the gun I keep in the house for the wife to use when @ home.....if she does not have her CHL gun on her......
one thing to remember about the shorty is that it is factory made with a PISTOL grip....I can and have shot my 12 gauge with one hand.....not a pleasant experience, but I can do it.......I think it does get down to the semantics......
ELB wrote:Legally speaking, I am doubtful this would really fall under your CHL -- I think the CHL statutes pretty clearly deal with handguns. Is there a law against carrying a concealed rifle, shotgun, or AOW? Dunno, no time to research.
I'm not sure what something like the Serbu Shorty would be considered--I think the most likely possibility is that it would be considered a short-barreled shotgun, but I could also make an argument for considering it a handgun under Texas law ("any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand"). If an AR-15 pistol, with a reciever originally designed for a rifle but built with a short barrel and no stock, is considered a handgun under Texas law, why shouldn't a shotgun reciever with the same characteristics be the same way.
While I see your point, on the Serbu, you could make the argument that it has a forward grip so was clearly not adapted for one hand fire
