Internet "Beat Down" Videos

[NEB]

Or at least, that's what the kids call them. I saw one today of two young women nearly beating to death another young woman at a McDonalds. Watching the video caused a great deal of emotion to flood up to the surface, and it has led me to ask some questions of myself.

I have always been firmly within the "NOT A BATMAN LICENSE" crowd. My firearm is intended for the protection of myself and my family or loved ones. I have played scenarios in my head countless times asking, "what would I do in that situation."

As I watched the video unfold, I found myself becoming more and mre emotionally involved. The woman being beaten in the video never attempted to fight back; she only covered herself, taking repeated kicks and punches to the body and head. At the end of the video, the woman was bleeding from the mouth and seizing on the floor following a particularly brutal kick to the head. All the while, the "men" in the video watched and video'd.

So now I find myself asking what I would do in such a situation. Obviously, the first step is to call the police. If I were not armed, I could easily find myself trying to prevent the attackers from repeatedly coming back to their victim after walking away. However, being armed calls me to a higher standard. I would NOT feel comfortable getting involved in a non-deadly force type of way while armed. I cannot take the risk that somehow my firearm comes under someone elses control. Related to deadly force intervention, I know that the law allows me to use deadly force or the threat of deadly force in the defense of my life or another's; however, as I stated earlier, my CHL is not a batman's license.

I guess that's where I'm at right now. My human compassion cries out against just standing by and watching someone get beat nearly to death, but my common sense says, "what can you do about it short of deadly force?" As I said before, I would not get involved in a potentially physical way while armed, and I just cannot invision pulling a firearm in this situation.

What are your thoughts?

--NEB

[03Lightningrocks]

You should post your thoughts about that topic on the thread for that topic.

[NEB]

Funny...I looked, but I didn't see a thread. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or in the right place?

[Scott Murray]

While I don't feel obliged to get involved in every fight, or defend the contents of a business's cash register, I hope I would be willing to intervene to keep a helpless woman from being beaten to death.

Trust your instincts, and don't spend too much time worrying about lawyers or what if situations. Could you live with yourself knowing you could have saved her life, and didn't?

If I could stop the abuse without displaying a weapon, I would. If the number of assailants made that impractical, displaying a weapon to create an apprehension that you would use deadly force does not itself constitute the use of deadly force. If the abusers attempted to grab the weapon, the possibility that they might use it on you would mean you were being threatened with deadly force.

This is a personal call. But I hope I would act in a way I could be proud of.

Scott

[03Lightningrocks]

Funny...I looked, but I didn't see a thread. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or in the right place?

I was talking about the thread where the video you are talking about is posted. Folks are having the exact same conversation about what they would do on that thread.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=44420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Annoyed Man]

I would NOT feel comfortable getting involved in a non-deadly force type of way while armed. I cannot take the risk that somehow my firearm comes under someone elses control. Related to deadly force intervention, I know that the law allows me to use deadly force or the threat of deadly force in the defense of my life or another's; however, as I stated earlier, my CHL is not a batman's license.

The problem is that young girl in that video was dying as she was laying there. I worked in an ER long enough that I can tell you when a victim is beaten into unconsciousness, is bleeding from cranial orifices, and is having a seizure, she is experiencing a significant brain injury—one that will likely kill her if she does not get medical intervention very quickly.

Texas PC 1.07 (46) says 

"Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

Texas PC Sec. 9.33 says:

DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1)  under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2)  the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

In that McDonalds, where those two subhuman teenaged girls were beating the other girl to death in front of a crowd of witnesses who lacked enough character to intervene, there was ONE person with enough stones to try and stop it—an unarmed elderly white woman.

There is NO doubt whatsoever that use of force and deadly force would have been justified under 9.31 and 9.32. There is NO doubt that use of deadly force under 9.33 was justifiable. There is NO doubt that the victim faced "substantial risk of death or that causes death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ."

No, I am not batman. That means that I feel no particular duty to use my weapon to disrupt a bank robbery or a 7-11 heist. But I am not going to stand by and watch a savage beating like that, perpetrated by two worthless pieces of crap, and not step in. This one was a no-brainer. There was NO chance that the two aggressors were cops trying to subdue a dangerous criminal. There was NO chance that the two aggressors were fending off a mugger. There was NO chance that the two aggressors had caught the victim cheating on them.

I am a 58 year old man, possessed of a certain amount of discernment, and there is NO chance that I would not have seen this for anything other than exactly what it was—an inhumanely savage act, perpetrated by a couple of rabid dogs. No, I'm not going to get physically involved and start wrassling around. But I think if I witnessed something like that, I would have at least the same amount of courage as the old woman who DID stand up and try to interfere, and I would draw my gun and order them to stand down and back off....and if they refused to stop, then... well... you know....

I am actually quite angry about this video. Not so angry as to lose my objectivity about those events, but angry that so many people are such moral cowards that they will allow that stuff to go on and NOT try to stop it. Think about it. There must have been 20 people in that McDonalds, and only one old woman had the courage to do something. And what happened to her? Nothing. The aggressors were like sharks. They had target lock, and they weren't interested in anybody but their victim. The old woman who interfered did so courageously, but it is notable that they didn't turn on her.

If I witnessed something like that and didn't intercede, I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror. I just couldn't.