CHL LIABILITY- SHOULD I ACT OR LET IT BE?

[Oldgringo]

drjoker wrote:

Unemployed crazy people have nothing to do all day long except for dreaming up creative ways to make your life miserable. Don't ever tick off unemployed crazy people.

Sage advice!

[The Annoyed Man]

While I understand your predicament, I doubt that calling the DPS without there being any existing police contact records or arrest records is going to produce much in the way of results. Here's why....

....Let's say, for argument's sake, that Aunt K is an otherwise normal rational person who holds anti-gun opinions, and she finds out that you have an application for a CHL in process. She doesn't want you to have one, so she calls the DPS and tells them a bunch of lies—which cannot be substantiated by police contact or arrest records—alleging that you are a drug abuser and drinker, and that you threatened her husband with stun gun while you were drunk. In your scenario, DPS unjustly interrupts the processing of your application and denies you your CHL, based on the phone call of a family member who has a political agenda and is willing to lie to derail your application.

Please understand, I am NOT saying your story is a lie. I believe you. I just don't know if DPS will actually respond in any meaningful way to your concerns because A) they don't know you; B) you're not an LEO reporting a specific intervention performed while on-duty; C) they don't know your family's background story. Plus, lots of people legitimately take prescription pain killers with regularity, without abusing them, and it doesn't affect their behavior. I'm one of them. That's just one reason why DPS has to exercise caution in processing this kind of information when it comes into their hands.

I'm not telling you not to make the call, but I am suggesting that you may not get very far. In the meantime, segregate her away from your immediate family to the greatest degree possible. And pray. Pray hard. If she has any personal Christian faith, suggest the Celebrate Recovery program to her. She sounds like she is powerless over her addictions and compulsive behaviors, and that her life has become unmanageable. God can fix that, if she's willing to go along for the ride.

[Chrispy]

I agree with the others that suggested notifying the DPS. I recently attended their instructor coarse and a few of the guests were involved in the application process. I just want to relay that they are very open to accepting information about applicants. They even went so far as to say if you have a student and you get that feeling that something is "just not right" with them you can let us know and we'll look into it further. Another thing, is that if they find that she left out some information on the application that is considered a lie by omission and they will not grant the license. Hopefully this helps.

[The Annoyed Man]

I just updated my Texas CHL app on my Android phone (http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 88&start=0) and was reviewing the FAQ. It contained the following question and answer:

Q: I know someone who I feel has a psychological problem and is unfit to carry any kind of firearm. He/she has appliced for a license. Who should I speak to about my concerns?

A: You may send a signed, notarized letter to DPS and officers will investigate the allegation.

This speaks exactly to what I wrote above. A simple phone call isn't going to cut the mustard. You have to be willing to put your own reputation on the line by sending a signed and notarized written communication to DPS. That way they will know who to come after if you are just trying to make trouble for somebody.

To the OP, if you're not willing to take this step—written, signed, notarized—I'd leave it alone. If you are willing, then do what you have to do. Your concerns sound legitimate, but only you can decide the extent to which you are willing to back them.

[snatchel]

I've made my decision on how to deal with it. Basically, I'm just going to leave it alone, and "tend to my garden," to quote Voltaire. I am very supportive of our constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but I also think that prudence should be used when issuing a license that would allow someone to carry in public. However, its not my decision to make. Though I'm intimately familiar with weapons, the use of weapons, and other like subjects, I am not a CHL instructor or state authority as far as that is concerned. Ill leave it alone and let it work itself out..

[Skaven]

I've made my decision on how to deal with it. Basically, I'm just going to leave it alone, and "tend to my garden," to quote Voltaire. I am very supportive of our constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but I also think that prudence should be used when issuing a license that would allow someone to carry in public. However, its not my decision to make. Though I'm intimately familiar with weapons, the use of weapons, and other like subjects, I am not a CHL instructor or state authority as far as that is concerned. Ill leave it alone and let it work itself out..

I think that you have taken the high road on this one. Now you have available to you a wealth of knowledge on how to post a proper 30.06 sign on your front door, in contrasting block lettering at least 1 inch in height.

[snatchel]

I've made my decision on how to deal with it. Basically, I'm just going to leave it alone, and "tend to my garden," to quote Voltaire. I am very supportive of our constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but I also think that prudence should be used when issuing a license that would allow someone to carry in public. However, its not my decision to make. Though I'm intimately familiar with weapons, the use of weapons, and other like subjects, I am not a CHL instructor or state authority as far as that is concerned. Ill leave it alone and let it work itself out..

I think that you have taken the high road on this one. Now you have available to you a wealth of knowledge on how to post a proper 30.06 sign on your front door, in contrasting block lettering at least 1 inch in height.

LoL @ the 30.06 sign.

[A-R]

I've made my decision on how to deal with it. Basically, I'm just going to leave it alone, and "tend to my garden," to quote Voltaire. I am very supportive of our constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but I also think that prudence should be used when issuing a license that would allow someone to carry in public. However, its not my decision to make. Though I'm intimately familiar with weapons, the use of weapons, and other like subjects, I am not a CHL instructor or state authority as far as that is concerned. Ill leave it alone and let it work itself out..

I think that you have taken the high road on this one. Now you have available to you a wealth of knowledge on how to post a proper 30.06 sign on your front door, in contrasting block lettering at least 1 inch in height.

LoL @ the 30.06 sign.

Guess none of us are going over to snatchel's house to play cards or watch the game. I won't grace with my presence a place that seeks to disarm me

Beyond the tongue in cheek above:

1. this is precisely why we have ORAL 30.06 notice ... so you can tell Aunt K she is trespassing if she enters, but not tell the same to all your card-playing/game-watching buddies.

2. this first phrase, sounds a lot like anti-gun folks:

I also think that prudence should be used when issuing a license that would allow someone to carry in public.

however, this part is what no Brady Buncher would ever have the common sense to say :

However, its not my decision to make.

btw, snatchel, not intending to call you out in any way or labeling you "anti-gun"

[sugar land dave]

Cut your losses and run.

Also - was it a Taser or a stun gun? If it was a full blown Taser w/ a cartridge, Aunt K would have a broken arm and sprained wrist at best, had it been my face.

A Taser shoots a projectile. It's kinda like a gun. A stun gun needs contact to work. If she were firing a Taser at your wife, then you reacted fine. If she were firing a stun gun at your wife, then you may have overreacted, depending on the distance your aunt was from your wife and your aunt's demeanor at the time. Regardless, you should ban her from your home.

It wouldn't hurt to talk with the DPS. Be sure to have her name and birthday handy when chatting with the DPS or else they wouldn't be able to put your info with her file at the DPS because more than one applicant could possibly have the same name. Just telling the DPS that your aunt is crazy is worthless information to the DPS. Giving the DPS specific verifiable information and evidence is what you'll need to do. The DPS cannot take away someone's constitutional right to bear arms based on your conjecture. However, if you tell them that your aunt was institutionalized for schizophrenia against her will because she stabbed someone on a specific date, then that is valuable information to the DPS. The DPS could ask for her complete medical records dating from that period. The DPS could also request arrest records from the PD of the town she was arrested in. Small towns may not have all their older arrest records computerized, so your intel could possibly cause her application to be rejected. If she were truly stark raving mad, I don't think that she would be able to pass the written exam. If you live in a small town and there's only one CHL instructor in your town, then you should also talk with the instructor. Have the instructor keep an eye on her to make sure that she has proper muzzle control. The instructor has the power to fail her if he/she deems your aunt to be a danger. For example, the instructor has the power to flunk your aunt if he/she sees your aunt muzzle someone with her gun in class. Do all of this discreetly or else she'll come after you. Unemployed crazy people have nothing to do all day long except for dreaming up creative ways to make your life miserable. Don't ever tick off unemployed crazy people.

If she's sane enough to pass the written exam, act safely during her CHL class, and pass the increased scrutiny of the DPS after you've chatted with them about her, then relax. She may be more sane than you think.

Good luck,

Respectfully, I am going to disagree with chatting with DPS. It is DPS, FBI, and local law enforcement business to determine eligibility. Would you want some of your acquaintances going to DPS to discuss their opinion of your acceptability for a CHL? What about letting the Brady bunch tell DPS what they think? How are we any different from them if we start interjecting ourselves into someone else's processing?

[snatchel]

Sugar land Dave, exactly my reasoning for the decision I made. Austin realtor, I take no offense. I'm definitely pro-gun, and pro-CHL. By prudence I meant that care should be taken when issuing a license to carry publicly. There are checks in place to determine licensing eligibility, and I should just let our great state make those decisions

However, Aunt K is just one of a couple of people who I know carry, or will carry, that I have seen doing unsafe things with firearms or other defensive tools out of blatant ignorance or what-have-you. It just makes me nervous! I think everyone should carry, but I think that some folks need more training than others beforehand.

Maybe that would be a better decision for me. Include her on my range trips on Sundays and help teach her better how to handle her firearm so that I don't have to worry about safety. I'm a huge supporter of training. I'm an expert shooter in both long guns, and handguns. I'm a certified military close quarter battle techniques and small arms instructor, and I catch myself making stupid mistakes occasionally. Help her instead of hinder her?

Oh, and as far as posting a 30.06 sign on my front door, I think that was meant to be sarcastic and I took it as such. If I was mistaken, I apologize.

[bluesea112]

Even if your Aunt K is denied her CHL, it does not prevent her from carrying a handgun in her home, on her property, or in her vehicle. It sounds to me like you have a God complex and want to use the DPS to control your aunt based on your own personal opinion of her CHL eligibility. Mind your own business. According to what I just read, you are the one who should not be allowed to carry a gun. You are the type of person who overreacts to situations and ends up being an excuse for the anti gunners to march.

[Jumping Frog]

Even if your Aunt K is denied her CHL, it does not prevent her from carrying a handgun in her home, on her property, or in her vehicle. It sounds to me like you have a God complex and want to use the DPS to control your aunt based on your own personal opinion of her CHL eligibility. Mind your own business. According to what I just read, you are the one who should not be allowed to carry a gun. You are the type of person who overreacts to situations and ends up being an excuse for the anti gunners to march.

It is generally considered poor form to Necropost a three year old thread when you are new to a forum.

To perform a Necropost for the express purpose of violating forum rules by personally attacking someone is also considered poor form.

Please note I am expressing a general observation not aimed at any individual.

[gigag04]

Bluesea is aunt K?

[Oldgringo]

necro post:
To bring life to a dead thread; to post in a thread that hasn't had any new posts for a considerable amount of time

Just in case anyone was wondering.

[apostate]

It is generally considered poor form to Necropost a three year old thread when you are new to a forum.

It appears he joined a few months before the thread began. Perhaps he's an extremely slow typist.