Socioeconomic breakdown

[Jasonw560]

I know. (edited in case she reads it--took out a reference).

The schoolin' starts today!

[gregthehand]

Why by ask her to prove her statement. It sounds like she just blurted it out or believes it but if she's going to say it then she should be able to back it up. If she can't or refuses to do so then showing her data won't change her mind as factual evidence won't sway her. She'll just dismiss data and say something like "Well having a degree doesn't make you smart or not a redneck. Anyone can get a degree from wherever. No telling if it's even an accredited college."

In other words if you show her facts as long as her emotional baggage is still there then it won't help. Her reasons have been taught by years of anti gun retoric. It's takes a significant emotional event or else years of continued preaching to change their mind. If then. It's like when someone loves a certain food and eats it all the time. Then one day they get voilently I'll from it. They try to eat it again and just the smell of it makes them gag. The food itself hasn't changed. Just their perception of it did. More than likely their getting sick wasnt even the food at all but instead some micro-germ brought on by poor preparation or them not washing their hands as well. Doesn't matter though. As humans people look to objects to blame problems on because we have been trained to so since childhood. Touch the stove: get burned. Slip on ice: sore butt. The lesson that many take away is not that we should have been more careful but instead that hot stoves are scary and I ice on the ground is dangerous no matter what. If you don't believe me pay attention with most people when it comes to lighting a gas stove. Even with the auto striker when it flames up they'll jump back like they just saw a snake strike at them. Or they'll ask you to do it.

The point is you're going to have to modify your tactics if you really want to won this one. The best way is the old exposure technique of taking them shooting. Preferably in a controlled enviroment with people who aren't in the least bit rednecks and speak with a degree of intelligence. The other, which is unlikely, would be if something bad happened and you were able to thraught the damage done with a firearm. It's something that can go wrong of course though so you have to hope it doesn't happen. But if it does happen often, bot always, it can change their perception. Detailing accounts of how others were prepared and delt with hate and rage directed at them more than likely won't sway her though. She'll tune it out.

Just my observation. By the way I'm on my phone and just scanned the thread so I hope someone hasn't already said all this.

[WildBill]

Because she thinks that all the people who conceal carry are "uneducated rednecks" and "nut jobs", and that "normal people" don't carry guns on a daily basis.

If I have some numbers that she can see, and realize "normal people" do carry on a daily basis, it'll make it more palatable to her.

Since I have been around guns and shooting since I was a child I didn't have the issue of being anti-gun or afraid of guns because of the anti-gun propaganda in the media. However, I understand your wife's concern. First of all, I can't define a "redneck", but I think I know one when I see one.

At the risk of being flamed, there are many "uneducated rednecks" and "nut jobs" who shoot and carry guns. That was always a concern of mine when I would go to the range and shoot. It seemed like that there was always some yahoo who was acting like a jerk or doing something that was not safe. Witness the video that Excaliber posted yesterday, of the guy tripping a shooting off two rounds from his Glock. That kind of stupid and foolish behavior angers me and gives credence to stereotype "redneck" gun owner. Especially when some moron, off-camera, is laughing his fool head off.

Stereotyping goes both ways. I don't consider myself to be a "redneck" or "nut-job", but I have been stereotyped by many Texans. Most people in Texas, when they find out that I moved from California, automatically assume that I am a liberal anti-gun tree-hugger.

That said, there are also many smart, normal and good people who shoot and carry guns - there are many of this forum. I feel lucky to belong to PSC range where the vast majority of the people are friendly, nice and safe. Maybe a few trips to the range will convince her more that "statistics".

[03Lightningrocks]

Okay, I mean ND, then. But that's a different story.

I hear and agree with everything said here. I have an AAS in Emergency Medical Sciences. I'm smarter than the average bear. I know about this issue because I study it, and after all the facts are in, I come down on the most logical side.

I'm going to bring up the issue with her today. I might even have to use Charles' feel good line.

An associates degree is equivalent with a trade school. Do people who choose a trade school fall into this uneducated crowd you speak of?

[Jasonw560]

That's the thing. Her dad and brother hunt, and she's grown up around guns. This is stemming from our kids, and her being overprotective of them and rationalizing why she doesn't wants them around the twins.

She knows what defines smart. She knows all these things, but she's afraid of won't happen.

I think my FIL having a pistol hiden, but the boys knowing where it is, helps her a bit.

Also, being around liberal teachers doesn't help matters.

I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[Jasonw560]

I'm sorry I brought this up. This is frustrating me, and should my wife peruse this forum, this wouldn't be good for me.

Can this thread be deleted? I am taking everythng to heart.

[Hoi Polloi]

That's the thing. Her dad and brother hunt, and she's grown up around guns. This is stemming from our kids, and her being overprotective of them and rationalizing why she doesn't wants them around the twins.

She knows what defines smart. She knows all these things, but she's afraid of won't happen.

I think my FIL having a pistol hiden, but the boys knowing where it is, helps her a bit.

Also, being around liberal teachers doesn't help matters.

I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Have we had this conversation before? I'm having dejavu over the teacher part.

You say she grew up around hunting and guns, she thinks gun owners are rednecks, she is most concerned about safety, and her dad currently has a loaded pistol that is unsupervised and accessible to your children. You point this out as a good thing because it's positive that the twins haven't messed with it, so... see? Guns are safe around our kids!

I'll translate what you've told us into women speak as I see it.
Her: "I don't want our children to have the same experiences with guns that I did growing up."
Him: "Why? Your dad had guns and went hunting and was a great guy! I want them to have the exact same experiences!"
Her: "That's the problem! I didn't feel safe growing up. The gun culture I was surrounded by took liberties with safety that I'm not comfortable taking with my children."
Him: "That's stupid. Our kids are around your dad and his gun all the time and there hasn't been a problem."
Her: "I really have a problem with that and now I'm also hurt that my own husband called my concerns for our children stupid. I didn't feel safe as a child and I don't feel safe with my children now around it. I feel ganged up on and defenseless because my husband is now siding with my dad and family. This is what I see in gun culture. I don't like it. I don't like what it did to me growing up. I don't like what it is doing to you. I don't like the risks my dad is taking with our children and I really don't like that you, my husband and their father, is doing the same. I feel so alone and unsupported and afraid and marginalized."
Him: "This is all because of your stupid liberal hippie teacher friends. You have mental issues with poor people and guns. You need counseling!"
Her: "I hate what guns do to people! All I want is for my children to be safe around lethal weapons and that makes me crazy? There's no talking to gun nuts! This is always how it goes!"
Him: "So you want to go to the range and watch me have fun shooting guns?"

This might not be the precise way she sees it, but that's how it seems to me she's interpreting your conversations from what you've told us about what she's telling you. I realize it probably has very little resemblance to the actual conversation, but it seems that it might be how she's hearing it. May I suggest you change the whole conversation?

Her: I hate guns.
Him: You don't feel safe around them?
Her: No! The kids could get into them and kill themselves!
Him: Safe gun handling would mean having a lock between any unsupervised gun and children.
Her: That's not what you said before!
Him: I'm so sorry. I was so intent on arguing that guns aren't unsafe that I was foolhardy in my arguments. They are lethal weapons which must be treated with caution, especially around children. I knew that, but was too interested in arguing to be willing to discuss it. There are rules in place on how to handle guns safely. There are intelligent, respectful people who discuss how to safely have guns and children in the same house. There's a lot more I can learn and do to help keep our children safe. I was just reading a website called Cornered Cat and she has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to the safety of children around guns. A mom on a gun forum recommended her to me. She has an interesting approach I'm thinking of using with the twins to help make sure they're always safe. Will you read it and tell me what you think?
Her: Yeah, good luck getting my dad to do that!
Him: We can see what we can do about that. If it comes down to it, we can keep the boys out of his house if we have any concerns. I'm sure we'll figure it out together. I want you to know that you and the twins are first to me and I am going to make sure you're safe, not only from people who intend to harm you, but also from irresponsibility on mine and our families' parts. I love you and I love the kids and you come first to me.
Her: Yeah, we'll see.

Aha! Now you have a chance to show her. And show her. And show her. And show her. And show her that she and the twins come before your allegiance to the irresponsible culture she identifies with gun ownership. And eventually she'll believe that you mean it. At first, it will probably be showing her she comes before guns. She might want you to stay home instead of going to the range, to not take your gun somewhere, to not praise her dad's gunhandling/hunting, etc. To basically distance yourself from all of it. Then she'll probably be watching that the limited interactions you do have are scrupulously safe and radically different from what she is accustomed to. Then she'll probably be ready to have a slow introduction to guns and safe gun culture herself. You having patience and undying loyalty to her and your children through that time will be what will change her heart, not any stats or fears or proofs. That's my suggestion, anyway, based on what you've told us.

[Jasonw560]

Thanks. I'm 40, married almost 11 years, and I still don't understand women.

Hoi, thanks for putting it like that. I will definiitely bring up cornered cat, too.

[jmra]

Sometimes more education simply means more indoctrination. Where I work education and common sense seem to be polar opposites.

[C-dub]

Well, if it helps, my wife and I both have Bachelors of Science degrees in a medical field. And she has a little more than that too. She doesn't carry yet, but she does shoot with me at the range sometimes. We're in our 40's and it would be quite a stretch to label me as a redneck.

I used to think I was normal because there isn't anything wrong with me. Now, I'm learning that is abnormal. Wait, I just remembered that I have developed allergies over the 25+ years I've been in Texas now. I'm normal again! Woo Hoo!!!

Oh, and my brother and BIL each make more than my wife and me put together and neither of them have even been to college.

[longtooth]

I'm sorry I brought this up. This is frustrating me, and should my wife peruse this forum, this wouldn't be good for me.

Can this thread be deleted? I am taking everythng to heart.

Sir the thread cannot be deleated. There are many well thought out & well worded quality posts in this thread from well informed people. This is a good resourse in the future for those that need to deal w/ their irrational fears of firearms.

We cannot begin deleating threads at the desire of OPs when they are frustrated over answers to questions, advice, personal thoughts & observations. It will remain open.

[C-dub]

I forgot to mention that neither my brother or BIL carry. My BIL has a gun, but hasn't shot it in years. My brother has a gun, I think, but the only reason for that is his FIL left it to him. Both are conservative, but haven't seen a need to get a CHL and aren't that interested in guns period.

[Keith B]

Thanks. I'm 40, married almost 11 years, and I still don't understand women.

I'm 11 years older and been married 18 years longer than you. If you DO figure them out, would you please let me in on the secret?

[i8godzilla]

Thanks. I'm 40, married almost 11 years, and I still don't understand women.
--snip--

Don't think you ever will!

[Jasonw560]

Okay, I mean ND, then. But that's a different story.

I hear and agree with everything said here. I have an AAS in Emergency Medical Sciences. I'm smarter than the average bear. I know about this issue because I study it, and after all the facts are in, I come down on the most logical side.

I'm going to bring up the issue with her today. I might even have to use Charles' feel good line.

An associates degree is equivalent with a trade school. Do people who choose a trade school fall into this uneducated crowd you speak of?

I don't think so.