Through NM to CO

[74novaman]

Driving through NM to co this weekend. I've looked at handgunlaw.us and other than new mexicos 1 gun restriction and prohibition on carrying in resterants that serve hard liquor, looks like things are pretty similar to Texas. Any other info I should know about either state? Thanks

[PappaGun]

You can't carry on an Indian rez and there are a lot of them.
And you drive through a lot of them on any of the interstates.

If you stop at a casino, make sure it is secured. It's a federal crime.

Technically you aren't even suppose to have a gun in your car on the rez.

I lived there for 30 years though and never heard of it being an issue.

Yes, you can only conceal one handgun, but you can OC another one if you want to.

And just as an FYI, not saying you would, but NM will throw you in the pokey if you have ANY measurable amount of alchohol in your system.
There is no tolerance for alchohol and weapons together.

[74novaman]

And just as an FYI, not saying you would, but NM will throw you in the pokey if you have ANY measurable amount of alchohol in your system.
There is no tolerance for alchohol and weapons together.

Gotcha, thanks! Ill literally just be driving through NM so the most I'll be doing is stopping for a bite to eat, no drinking on the road for me!

[denwego]

You can't carry on an Indian rez and there are a lot of them.
And you drive through a lot of them on any of the interstates.

Indian law doesn't apply to non-Indians (as federal law calls us); beyond that, it's a trespass on private property issue, as the tribe is the property owner.

If you stop at a casino, make sure it is secured. It's a federal crime.

No federal law about that, although every casino I've ever seen prohibits weapons on their property as a policy.

And yeah, NM is very strict about alcohol and guns; you can carry concealed with a permit in off-premise places (like grocery/gas stores) or in restaurants (60% of sale from food, slightly stricter than Texas' 51% law but you won't get them easily confused) - but you cannot carry openly in any place licensed to sell alcohol, whether you have a permit or not, excepting only in parking areas. Pretend you're in Texas when you're at Chili's and you'll be fine for that

----

As for Colorado, I lived there for several years with a Colorado CHP, and you're gonna like it compared to TX! There's nearly no prohibited locations: schools and places with permanent security screening are the only two places prohibited for concealed carry, with public transportation facilities (airports, etc.) and courthouses being prohibited for all carry. Signs have no weight of law for CC. Open carry is legal with no permit as well but default, but signs DO have legal weight for OC, and Denver has an exemption to ban OC within their city limits alone (all other cities are fine for OC). OC/CC is legal in your car without a permit as well.

Enjoy the trip!

[PappaGun]

You can't carry on an Indian rez and there are a lot of them.
And you drive through a lot of them on any of the interstates.

Indian law doesn't apply to non-Indians (as federal law calls us); beyond that, it's a trespass on private property issue, as the tribe is the property owner.

If you stop at a casino, make sure it is secured. It's a federal crime.

No federal law about that, although every casino I've ever seen prohibits weapons on their property as a policy.

And yeah, NM is very strict about alcohol and guns; you can carry concealed with a permit in off-premise places (like grocery/gas stores) or in restaurants (60% of sale from food, slightly stricter than Texas' 51% law but you won't get them easily confused) - but you cannot carry openly in any place licensed to sell alcohol, whether you have a permit or not, excepting only in parking areas. Pretend you're in Texas when you're at Chili's and you'll be fine for that

----

As for Colorado, I lived there for several years with a Colorado CHP, and you're gonna like it compared to TX! There's nearly no prohibited locations: schools and places with permanent security screening are the only two places prohibited for concealed carry, with public transportation facilities (airports, etc.) and courthouses being prohibited for all carry. Signs have no weight of law for CC. Open carry is legal with no permit as well but default, but signs DO have legal weight for OC, and Denver has an exemption to ban OC within their city limits alone (all other cities are fine for OC). OC/CC is legal in your car without a permit as well.

Enjoy the trip!

Yeah. I generalized too much.

Tribal lands are prohibited in the CCW laws of NM.

I say that Federal law applies because if litigation is involved (not necessarily weapons violations), the Tribal courts don't have authority with non-Indians unless there is an agreement in place that relinquishes that authority.
Indian territory is sovereign and State laws do not apply without a compact. They almost never give up any of their rights. They learned the hard way.

If you get accused of some thing illegal on Indian land, it is a real can of worms. That's really my only point.

OTH if it is a misdemeanor, you don't have to show up because they don't come after you and have no authority over you outside the rez.

Otherwise, I think the Marshalls come calling.

[ScottDLS]

You can't carry on an Indian rez and there are a lot of them.
And you drive through a lot of them on any of the interstates.

Indian law doesn't apply to non-Indians (as federal law calls us); beyond that, it's a trespass on private property issue, as the tribe is the property owner.

If you stop at a casino, make sure it is secured. It's a federal crime.

No federal law about that, although every casino I've ever seen prohibits weapons on their property as a policy.

And yeah, NM is very strict about alcohol and guns; you can carry concealed with a permit in off-premise places (like grocery/gas stores) or in restaurants (60% of sale from food, slightly stricter than Texas' 51% law but you won't get them easily confused) - but you cannot carry openly in any place licensed to sell alcohol, whether you have a permit or not, excepting only in parking areas. Pretend you're in Texas when you're at Chili's and you'll be fine for that

----

As for Colorado, I lived there for several years with a Colorado CHP, and you're gonna like it compared to TX! There's nearly no prohibited locations: schools and places with permanent security screening are the only two places prohibited for concealed carry, with public transportation facilities (airports, etc.) and courthouses being prohibited for all carry. Signs have no weight of law for CC. Open carry is legal with no permit as well but default, but signs DO have legal weight for OC, and Denver has an exemption to ban OC within their city limits alone (all other cities are fine for OC). OC/CC is legal in your car without a permit as well.

Enjoy the trip!

Yeah. I generalized too much.

Tribal lands are prohibited in the CCW laws of NM.

That is very important to know, because that's how a non-Indian would be charged in NM.

I say that Federal law applies because if litigation is involved (not necessarily weapons violations), the Tribal courts don't have authority with non-Indians unless there is an agreement in place that relinquishes that authority.


Indian territory is sovereign and State laws do not apply without a compact. They almost never give up any of their rights. They learned the hard way.

I think state criminal laws do apply to non-Indians without a compact. Maybe you were talking about Indians.

If you get accused of some thing illegal on Indian land, it is a real can of worms. That's really my only point.

OTH if it is a misdemeanor, you don't have to show up because they don't come after you and have no authority over you outside the rez.

Otherwise, I think the Marshalls come calling.

Non-Indians are never subject to Tribal criminal jurisdiction, only US Federal and state (SCOTUS, Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, 1978).

[74novaman]

I'll be driving up 87 so won't even be in NM for too long. I don't think any Rez land is along highway 87?

[fulano]

You can't carry on an Indian rez and there are a lot of them.
And you drive through a lot of them on any of the interstates.

Indian law doesn't apply to non-Indians (as federal law calls us); beyond that, it's a trespass on private property issue, as the tribe is the property owner.

I was watching an episode of Navajo Cops on the Nat Geo channel (I gotta get a life) where a guy from Utah was driving through the reservation to get to a construction job in another state and he was stopped for speeding. The Navajo LEO found that he had a loaded SA and took it away from him. It wasn't clear why. In fact there was a discussion about that on the roadside with the other LEOs (Navajo LEOs). They were quite concerned that it had a chambered round (go figure that) . They finally asked him for proof of owner ship which he didn't have so they let him go and kept the weapon. He was quite grumpy and mumbled that he problem wouldn't see the weapon again.

After this I browsed several western forums to look for the tribal law s/legal actions. I found a post from a Navajo LEO saying that if you have a CHL you can carry in the reservation's roadways and service stations, etc. He said they respected the laws on CC for the state they are located. I looked for the post and couldn't find it again. I remember it was made within the last year. Will keep looking .

I drive through several different reservations as I cross NM from ABQ and on through CO and UT on HWY 550 & 491 (used to be 666) at least four times a year and never worried about it till I saw that episode. My take it that the worst that can happen is that they keep your gun.

[PappaGun]

Most people don't know that Indian reservations and Pueblo's are soverign territories.

They make their own laws. There are something like eight Pueblo's and several reservations all with their own rules and regs.

For a non-indian accused it is a dizzyingly complex system of justice.

Decisions are made by committee and if the committe can't agree no decision is made. It can drag things on forever.

I'm glad to hear that the Navajo's are OK with CC.

You're right that the worst that can happen is that they take your gun. And that would suck. There would be no recourse.

Hwy 87 is ranch territory; no reservations. In fact, find a nice spot and pull over and do some plinking.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, I want to clarify the alchohol and weapons comment I made earlier.

I'm sure no one here would drink and drive.

But there have been threads about having a drink and still being legal in Texas as long as you are under .08.

In NM, you can not have a beer with lunch and carry. And having a beer with lunch is always on my vacation menu.

Have a good trip!

[mgood]

The "1 gun restriction" in NM only applies to concealed. You can carry as many as you want openly or in your vehicle. For example, you could open carry a pistol on your hip and have a concealed backup piece and more in your car. No problem.

I know nothing about laws concerning tribal lands and will defer to others who've given you advice. Just wanted to clear up the 1-gun thing since it is commonly misunderstood.

IANAL.

[74novaman]

Quick update: Made it through to CO with zero police interactions. Unfortunately, I'll be disarmed about 1/2 the time I'm up here (little sister graduating from the AFA) and obviously I'm not allowed to carry on base. Again, thanks for all the advice.

[denwego]

Hope you're enjoying the trip, because I'd rather be in coolish Colorado than sweltering Houston!

[PracticalTactical]

And yeah, NM is very strict about alcohol and guns; you can carry concealed with a permit in off-premise places (like grocery/gas stores) or in restaurants (60% of sale from food, slightly stricter than Texas' 51% law but you won't get them easily confused) - but you cannot carry openly in any place licensed to sell alcohol, whether you have a permit or not, excepting only in parking areas. Pretend you're in Texas when you're at Chili's and you'll be fine for that

Sorry I came late to the thread, I usually surf forums using Tapatalk and don't get on the computer to check forums that often. I am a NM CHL instructor and want to clarify the liquor law so nobody get's hooked up when passing through.

Unfortunately, we don't have a simple 60% rule for restaurants. You can carry in a licensed liquor establishment if:
They serve for off-premises consumption (Wal-mart, gas stations, etc) OR
The place gets 60%+ of revenue from food AND the place only sells beer and wine (no margaritas, mixed drinks or anything else) AND the place isn't posted AND there is no verbal notification.

The place has to meet all conditions for a green light on carry.

The whole beer and wine thing can be a bit of a minefield because it's not based on what they actually serve, but what they are licensed to serve. If a place has a full liquor license, it's a no go for CCW. If it's licensed as a 'restaurant', then it's OK provided the other conditions (60%, no posting, verbal) are met.

Worse, is that violation of this is a felony. Kiss your guns goodbye :(

With open carry legal in NM, we often have news stories of an unfortunate open carrier who didn't know the law and gets hooked up and hauled off. Fortunately, many police departments are nice and give a warning and escort the OC guy out, but some (ABQ, Santa Fe) aren't so nice and arrest without warning.

We're working hard to get this law changed to be more simple and transparent (a straight up 60% rule would be a HUGE improvement).

[Scott in Houston]

Hwy 87 is ranch territory; no reservations. In fact, find a nice spot and pull over and do some plinking.

Can you please elaborate on this? I"m also driving this route soon, and since this isn't possible in Texas, I'm very intrigued! I'd love to pull over and setup IDPA type targets and shoot.

How can I do this and make sure I'm legal? The whole idea is exciting, but also scary since it's foreign to me in Texas.

[Scott in Houston]

As for Colorado, I lived there for several years with a Colorado CHP, and you're gonna like it compared to TX! There's nearly no prohibited locations: schools and places with permanent security screening are the only two places prohibited for concealed carry, with public transportation facilities (airports, etc.) and courthouses being prohibited for all carry. Signs have no weight of law for CC. Open carry is legal with no permit as well but default, but signs DO have legal weight for OC, and Denver has an exemption to ban OC within their city limits alone (all other cities are fine for OC). OC/CC is legal in your car without a permit as well.

Enjoy the trip!

When I read this page on handgunlaws.us...

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It says sign have the force of law and doesn't exclude anything like they do for us in Texas (30.06 being the only ones with the force of law for CHL).
I'm unable to find the actual law about signs for Colorado.