What is with our kids these days?

[RPB]

I think it's 2 things
1) lack of discipline
2) lack of feeling of belonging

1) lack of discipline
My "daughters" the oldest one (25 now) at about age 5 called me "dad" for the first time (her idea, not mine) about 2 hours after her grandparents repeatedly told her not to play on the rusty scrap metal pile ... and she ignored them, I walked over and gave her a swat on the tail ... after that, I became her "dad" she figured no one else cared for her safety much. I had a belt rack with about 10 belts on it of various widths, weights etc, when a "daughter" deserved a spanking, she got to pick out which belt she felt she "deserved" sometimes they'd pick a skinny belt, and we'd discuss surface area, how it would hurt more, they'd return it and bring a wide one. Then I'd ask how many "licks" they deserved, they'd answer "one" and I'd say well if it's just 1, I'll have to make it really really hard, but if it was say 12, each "lick" would only be 1/12th as hard ... so I'd let them do the math and negotiate. (All the while discussing the seriousness of "the offense" The "Spanking process" usually lasted quite a while (discussing) the actual spanking lasted a very short time, but they "learned".
The oldest and I still laugh over one time she complained that the last "lick" was too hard, so I offered her a rebate" and I bent over and told her to whack me however "too hard" it was for what she deserved ... she patted me "very lightly" and I said that's allll? she said yeah. (The "discussing" and "belt selection" part uses time... also serves as a "cooling off" period for the adult so no child is hit in anger/loss of control)


My niece, 16 next month, She's a pretty good kid, said a bad word months ago and had to sit on the porch a while and think (we don't talk like that in this house) and she was crying and hugged me when she came back in. Last year she said "I'm too old to spank" I told her the oldest person I ever spanked was a 24 year old for saying a bad word, and that my dad spanked my mom for disrespecting her parents and that's a main reason she ended up marrying him, so she (my niece) has at least another 10 years of "spankablity". She pretty well behaves around me, and I've never spanked her, but she knows I would if she "earns" it.

I got the "You can't spank me, I'll call police" response once (I knew most of the Police Dept anyway, go ahead)

But...
My response: (Handy links below)

Young lady, the Attorney General says I can, just test me if you want to see.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/ag_publicat ... use2.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is spanking okay?

Texas law allows the use of force, but not deadly force, against a child by the child's parent, guardian, or other person who is acting in loco parentis. Most parents do, in fact, use corporal punishment (in the form of spanking) at least occasionally, and most do not, in fact, consider it abusive. Experts disagree about the advisability of ever spanking a child. Some say that, combined with other methods of discipline, mild spanking of a small child is harmless and effective. Others claim that other methods of discipline work as well as spanking or better, and that spanking is not necessary. Many child advocates and experts in child development contend that all forms of corporal punishment, including spanking, are harmful. Most believe that spanking an infant is always inappropriate. The law does not attempt to arbitrate between the different views on the best method of disciplining a child. What we do know is that severe corporal punishment can be extremely damaging and dangerous, and this is what the law prohibits as abuse.

Read more.... and guidelines at link above

Article on Spanking
http://www.woai.com/content/troubleshoo ... oHuqw.cspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) feeling like they don't "belong"
"Things are different nowadays; you are too old; RENTS (parents) can't understand like my friends do"
My "RENTS" (Parents) had West Side Story
In the 1960s/70s it was "don't trust anyone over 30" and the book "The Outsiders" (Greasers and Socs) http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/Lit ... d-139.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kids had little "pretend" tough gangs
Later it was the movie "Colors" about the Crips and Bloods
Kids need to "belong" and they will find a "group of peers" if Parents don't help/guide them towards one
Parents are "too busy" so fewer kids are in YMCA, 4-H clubs practicing with .22s; fewer are in church groups, Scouts etc
What's that old saying, Idle hands are the devil's workshop? ... too much time unsupervised in "bad peer groups"

I showed my niece the 1960s "free love" posters, and the Bible portions which show that it's now the same as it's been for thousands of years, her parents really do know what's going on, they had the same feelings when they were her age, among others, the prodigal son had to go through hard times because of it, she doesn't have to if she'll listen to the older ones who did. She's pretty well behaved compared to many in her high school. I try to always praise her good actions, she brought up a failing grade to a 91, after I reminded her how smart she is and that she used to be on the honor roll in elementary school and has a really high IQ (and that boys will still be around after college and that 99% of my high school class isn't even in touch any more, so it really didn't matter what they thought of me... her dad told her that too, no need to "impress them". Have you hugged your kid today?

=======================================

I try to teach
1) Actions have consequences
2) You'll ALWAYS get "caught" (if not by an adult/police/DISEASE/...etc ... there are consequences to every action)
3) YOU are responsible for your own actions
4) Love you and let's talk if you have questions ... preferably BEFORE you make any decisions you might regret.... you'll like that way better.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
It's the same now as it was; "RENTS" really DO understand.
The older I got, the smarter I found out that my dad was.
=====================
Funny note, yes "language" does change, my niece freaked out when her mom said "She's da bomb" ... niece looked for a terrorist body bomber ...
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You do what you can, sometimes a tree grows a wild sprout out somewhere it doesn't belong anyway.
As daughters/niece grew, I do things like open the car door for them etc., and tell them to look for a guy with manners and respect. (at least when first dating)( My dad embarrassed me once by standing when a girlfriend of mine's mother walked into the room and I forgot my manners at about 26 years old)

[mamabearCali]

A few things probably contribute to the problem.

#1 Inadequate/dysfunctional family units There is a higher rate of divorce/non-marriage today. As a result children often must deal with absent parents. Sometimes parents never grew up themselves and so they are like large children themselves and parent poorly. Children grow up best in a two parents household with parents who supply liberal amounts of love, discipline, and structure. Anything less can and will cause damage.

#2 Lesser education. It appears to me that education these days instead of sticking to the basics is much more concerned with being politically correct. Thus we have stupid 0 tolerance rules where a butter knife in a child's lunch box is treated the same way as a knife brought to school to be used with malicious intent. There is no grace, no learning, no second chances, and often no intelligence. The little morality that schools teach is so tinged with PC that it is rendered useless or even detrimental. Please do not think I am bashing teachers (I was a teacher) but the system that has been put into place.

#3 Lack of personal responsibility/boredom. My grandmother used to say "Idle hands are a devil's workshop" Now that may or may not be true, but even in my generation I had expectations to meet when I arrived at home. A generation before me had even further expectations. Today children are not given responsibilities around the house (chores) thus they have more time to get into trouble. They also seem to have less understanding of taking joy in order and thus are more inclined to spread disorder.

#4 Lack of moral compass that used to be given by clergy/religious training. Quite honestly there were times I might have gotten into more trouble as a kid, but angering a holy God that saw everything I did kept me from it. As I got older it turned more into not wanting to offend the God I loved and who loved me. You know the commandment "Thou shalt not steal" well if more kids were taught that they would be held accountable to that by an all knowing all seeing God they might fear a little more to do a B and E and tear out a person's TV.

[snatchel]

I know what yall are saying, and im only 25. Im not a parent (but i think of my 2 dogs as such) so I cant judge the way parents are these days. That said, its easy to tell the difference between how I was raised and how my brother raises his kids. Discipline is a joke nowadays...time out and the corner arent very effective. Parents arent too concerned because they compare to their friends kids. Exame : Well yeah, my kiddo got caught smoking pot today...but compared to Johnny's kid, pot is nothing to breaking and entering. Criminal kids are such a common occurence today that the standards of conduct for the rest of kids have been dropped.

But what do I know?

Oh, and FYI...my dad is a princip at a small 2A school and he still gives licks there! Small conservative towns are still just a little more old school.

[74novaman]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

Those of the elder generation have been bemoaning the behavior and problems with the generation that follows them as long as there has been multiple generations. I am 24, so am probably one of the youngest members on the board. People my age are currently serving honorably in the military, working hard, and bettering themselves, just as our forefathers did before us.

To claim that this is the worst behaved, laziest, whatever pejorative you'd like to use generation of history is an awfully pessimistic assumption.

Just my .02

[Texas Size 11]

Paddleing is illegal in our schools, and parents don't believe in the belt any more

This parent still believes in some backside tanning...

[CC Italian]

MamabearCali- On education I totally agree with you saying it’s not working but I don't know how long it has been since you have been in it or more importantly what were the demographics where you taught. I have been in schools out in the rural areas and schools in the outskirts of the inner city and they are two totally different things. As for the kids learning less academically I would say that is not the case at the schools I know, at least when it comes to the sciences. I think the liberal arts have been thrown aside for science and math though. Science, math and technology have taken precedent mainly because these are where all the jobs will be in the future. The kids in 6th grade are taking math that I learned in 8th grade. Many of the parents can't do the math 8th graders do unless they have gone to college or are naturally good at math. Math is pushed really hard on these kids.

As for zero tolerance, there is only zero tolerance when it comes to violence in my opinion. This doesn't include rude or disrespectful behavior in general. Let me explain, out in the suburbs in upper middle class neighborhoods kids there have far less discipline problems. Teacher’s main concerns in this part of the city are intellectually stimulating these kids. Teachers must push there students to learn more and demand more. Many of these kids will grow up to be smarter at least academically then their parents and teachers. These are the kids who will be the future doctors, lawyers etc. We call them the UT and A&M kids. Teachers can actually teach and parents reinforce discipline at home and in these schools. This is also were most of the veteran teachers are. It is not uncommon for teachers in these areas to have 10+ years experience on average.

Get closer to the city and the problem goes from educating to discipline real quick. Also the turn over rate for teachers jumps through the roof (until this recession) and most of the teachers have less then 5 years experience. Walk down a hallway and you will hear curse words the whole way down. You will almost never get a sir when addressed and you will have to write up 2-3 students a class period for cursing or just being disrespectful towards others or yourself. You have just lost 5-10 minutes of instructional time because of these students because not only would you have to write them up but they have to be removed by administration or a police officer. I have been cursed out many times and the student will get 1 or 2 days of ISS and be back in the classroom. When I was a kid if you did that you would be suspended from school for at least a week and you would probably never walk straight again because your parents would take a chunk out of your backside.

These days the parents show up all lawyered up trying to fight the ticket their child was given for cursing out 3 or 4 adults. It happens so often the administration gives them a slap on the wrist and sends them back into the classroom. This can happen 4-5 times before they go to alternative school, which by the way has a waiting list for students to get into that is so long they may not go there until the next semester depending on the severity of their behavior. This is the largest growing area in most school districts, alternative schools. These are the kids who are stealing the educational instruction time from the kids who want to learn. Of course not all schools are like this but this is to give you an idea of what a 10 mile drive towards the city can do.

[Ameer]

As a younger person, I think most of the blame falls on the parents. Looking at myself and my friends, those of us who had parents who parented didn't get into much trouble. Those who had parents who wanted to be liked, or parents who wanted to be their friend, got into more trouble. It doesn't seem to matter how strict the parents were. What mattered was they made rules and enforced them.

[CC Italian]

74Novaman- You are certainly correct, this has been said throughout history and I don't think that this youth is the worst in history. What you do have to remember is that the change our society has undergone in the last 150 years is drastic because of advancements in science, technology, industry etc. Technology is changing everything IMO. Changes are happening so quickly because of this technology boom and many of us can clearly relate, even if you are in your early 20s. Some of this change is for the better and some not. Think of the time period we are in now as the technological revolution ( I am pretty sure that’s how it will be recorded) and this time period will more then likely be just as important as the agricultural or industrial revolution in human history IMO. Sorry didn't mean to preach, if you haven't guessed I teach history. Have a great decoration day. Doesn't memorial sound so much better?

[sugar land dave]

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself brings his mother to shame.

[CC Italian]

I remember when my grandmother and even my mother and father told me about ethics and etiquette classes in school. I had no idea they had classes like this in public schools until I went to college and learned about it in my history classes and asked my parents and college professors more about it. I am only 30 so they didn’t have this growing up as a kid. Nowadays ethics falls under social studies- mainly philosophy classes if a school offers them but is just glanced over with so much time prepping for everything else that falls under social studies.

It might seem common sense to some but many of these kids could use a whole class period everyday about how to conduct themselves in etiquette classes or just discussing moral philosophy (ethics) . It worked for my grandparents and parents. Seems simple but maybe we should go back to the basics. These kids can do all the math and science you want but if they don't know how to act and have empathy for others we will continue to have major problems.

[mr surveyor]

There is no doubt that misbehaviour amongst the youth population has always been with us. I would only guess that the "incident rate" has been mostly unchanged through the centuries, but the "severity rate" has increased considerably.