Multiple-felon traveling with CHL holder and guns

[Yarborough]

My live-in girlfriend of two years has multiple felony convictions (drug-related), though her most recent conviction was 2001. In the decade since, she has completely changed her life, even forged a career as a case manager in dual-diagnosis mental health/drug rehabilitation facilities.

She has lost the desire to own/possess firearms, but I have recently rediscovered my love of shooting--I grew up in a rural area and was raised around firearms. I have a 100% clear criminal history and am in the process of completing my CHL, but I have a few questions:

1) Will it be legal for me to carry with her in my car, providing I am in control of the weapon?

2) Will it be legal for me to carry in *her* car, providing I am in control of the weapon?

3) Unrelated to CHL, is there a legal way to transport multiple firearms (in my car, or in a rental driven by me) with her as a passenger? For example: Driving to visit out-of-state relatives and having a couple of shotguns and/or pistols unloaded, in the trunk of the vehicle for later recreational use.

I understand there is a state (though not federal) provision allowing a felon to possess a firearm in their own home, so long as their most recent conviction is five years past. I also understand that many aspects of these scenarios are based on hypothetical set-ups and variables (namely, as in Number Three, not being searched during a traffic stop), furthermore that it would (seemingly) take a 1982-Chevy Chase-grade series of foul-ups for either of us to be run in for Felon + Gun, given our specific circumstances. Still, my girlfriend has worked very hard to get where she is today; the last thing I want is for her past to be dredged up and used against her due to any spotty law-knowledge on my part.

[KC5AV]

As I understand it, the best way to make sure you are covered is the make sure that she never has access to the firearms. You are safe to carry with her in your car. You are safe to carry with her in your car, etc. You can safely have the firearms at home. Just make sure that they are never readily accessible to her. If you store them in a safe, make sure that she doesn't have the combination, etc.

[shootthesheet]

As I understand it, the best way to make sure you are covered is the make sure that she never has access to the firearms. You are safe to carry with her in your car. You are safe to carry with her in your car, etc. You can safely have the firearms at home. Just make sure that they are never readily accessible to her. If you store them in a safe, make sure that she doesn't have the combination, etc.

Basically, you need to treat her and guns as if she was a child. The gun is either on you or in a locked safe or box she has no way to get into. It takes a little more effort than for someone with a non-felon in their life. You just can't be lazy or irresponsible, as long as she is around. Like a parent, look at this responsibility as an act of love for her.

If I had a felon girlfriend/wife she would know how to handle and operate my guns safely. It may be a matter of life or death for her and her loved ones. Even though she can't own or possess a firearm she may need to use one to defend herself one day. I won't say she won't have legal problems if she has to use a gun but if she does she needs to know what she is doing to keep herself from being raped or murdered or whatnot. Books and videos are available as well as airsoft guns for training. Hopefully neither of you will ever need to defend yourselves but it is always smart to be ready if you do. Just my opinion.

[Hoi Polloi]

I vaguely remember reading case laws referenced on these boards about when the courts have ruled that a person made a gun accessible to a felon or not. Unfortunately, the memories are too vague to make for a quick search. Since you're a little more vested in having the answer than I am you might take half an hour or so to try various searches here and on google to see what case law you come up with. While any officer can arrest you on a sincere but incorrect understanding of the nuance, you'll definitely want to make sure you're on the right side when any case like that got to court. Then once you know what kind of legal precedent there is on what's allowed or what's not, you'll be better able to avoid the police confrontation as well. While you can do a lot to avoid a Chevy-Chase-bang-up, sometimes craziness finds us through no fault of our own.

I started typing before STS's reply, so I will add a +1 to the above. I would definitely say while you are still researching to stay on the over-zealous side of the line.

I'd suggest a safe requiring either two access points (code plus key, for example) or a biometric safe requiring your fingerprints. If it isn't on your body, I'd have it in that safe even while traveling until you find out a better answer. I would also say, while you're reading up on it, it would mean that the trunk is not sufficient if she's able to get into the trunk (such as through a lever in the glove box or with a second or accessible set of car keys not under your control [ie you leave her in the running car while you run into a gas station restroom]). This might not be the criteria you'll be held to, but it is better to be more cautious than not until you find out what is expected.

[Yarborough]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies/info. This has been a much more understanding forum than some of the others I've tried, which mostly throw out ignorant "You have to choose between her and your guns" nonsense. I've spent hours running this stuff through Google and haven't come up with anything beyond what has been mentioned here. It's difficult for me to accept that I'm the first person who has asked these specific questions.

I don't mind jumping through esoteric hoops, so long as she and I are protected--I've had too many "you've got to be kidding" situations in my life to expect much support from Good Fortune or Luck or whatever. And I may take these questions/concerns to an attorney, before I actually receive my CHL--just trying to DIY the matter before having to pay for answers.

[SQLGeek]

I agree, it probably would not be a bad idea to consult with an attorney knowledgable in these matters just to have your bases covered.

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies/info. This has been a much more understanding forum than some of the others I've tried, which mostly throw out ignorant "You have to choose between her and your guns" nonsense. I've spent hours running this stuff through Google and haven't come up with anything beyond what has been mentioned here. It's difficult for me to accept that I'm the first person who has asked these specific questions.

I don't mind jumping through esoteric hoops, so long as she and I are protected--I've had too many "you've got to be kidding" situations in my life to expect much support from Good Fortune or Luck or whatever. And I may take these questions/concerns to an attorney, before I actually receive my CHL--just trying to DIY the matter before having to pay for answers.

Is there anything that can be done through the courts—given the past 10 years of sobriety and her career track—to reinstate her full rights? She may not have an interest in guns herself, but if she could do that, then it would certainly clear up the legal concerns you have right now.

[Yarborough]

Is there anything that can be done through the courts—given the past 10 years of sobriety and her career track—to reinstate her full rights? She may not have an interest in guns herself, but if she could do that, then it would certainly clear up the legal concerns you have right now.

I'm also working on that aspect of the situation. So far as I know, she hasn't had so much as a traffic violation since 2001, and considering she has (thus far successfully) devoted her life to working in rehabilitation/mental health and has unimpeachable cred as a non-profit volunteer, I'd think she would be a prime candidate for reinstatement. I'm just not sure how that works in a scenario with a repeat offender--even one who is literally a decade down the road from convictions.

[hirundo82]

So far as I know, she hasn't had so much as a traffic violation since 2001, and considering she has (thus far successfully) devoted her life to working in rehabilitation/mental health and has unimpeachable cred as a non-profit volunteer, I'd think she would be a prime candidate for reinstatement. I'm just not sure how that works in a scenario with a repeat offender--even one who is literally a decade down the road from convictions.

Someone who made mistakes in the past and has now turned their life around is exactly the kind of situation pardons are supposed to be used for. Unfortunately those with the power to grant pardons have become much more reluctant to grant them even when the relevant agency recommends it--it frequently takes significant political connections to get a pardon.

[KC5AV]

It's difficult for me to accept that I'm the first person who has asked these specific questions.

You're certainly not the first person who has asked these sorts of questions. The basics to keep in mind are:
1. Make sure that the weapon is without question under your control.
2. Make certain that the weapon is at no time accessible to her.

As others have mentioned, this will likely require a gun safe, or some sort of lock box. It will certainly require extra diligence on your part, but it is doable.
Good luck, and welcome to the forum. It is an excellent resource.

[SewTexas]

And I may take these questions/concerns to an attorney, before I actually receive my CHL

there's no reason not to get your chl. just follow the advice that's been given, a good safe will be more expensive, but if an issue comes up, you will be able to point to the safe and say "see, she's protected"

then work on trying to get her rights returned, it will probably take awhile, but couldn't hurt to ask.

[ELB]

+1 on talking to a criminal lawyer, one who understands and practices both state and federal law.

Here are a couple links you might find of interest:

US vs. Huet.

Also: Second Amendment Protects Gun Possession by the Housemates of Felons by Eugene Volokh.

Feds tried to charge a woman with criminally aiding and abetting her live-in felon boyfriend to illegally possessing a firearm. The case was dismissed at trial, the court ruling that the feds had no evidence that she did any such thing, and further ruling that the feds were stepping on her 2A right to have a firearm in her home.

The feds basic logic was that there was a gun and a felon in her house, so she must be guilty. They threw in some nonsense about militia boogiemen and "assault rifles." The court said no, even tho apparently an SKS rifle was in open view within her bedroom, and the boyfriend did plead guilty to some felon-in-possession charge.

Based on only the info in this thread and that one case, it sounds like you should be OK, but IANAL and will not front you any bail money, so go check with a real lawyer. Also, there is nothing that says the police won't try to make something of nothing should your arrangement come to their attention, but it seems to me that if your are basically legal, and neither you or the gf do anything to bring unflattering attention to yourselves, you are most likely OK.

elb

[Yarborough]

Tracy: Agreed, and I'm not at all suggesting any plans to hold-off on my CHL. I'm being fingerprinted tomorrow afternoon . . . on my way to the range, no less.

ELB: Thanks a bunch for the links and info. I agree with your assessment, and my girlfriend has basically the same feelings on the matter. And we're both well aware that if an LEO has made the conscious decision to really drive at us, there's not much that can be done except to fight it out later. I'm just gonna try to keep everything on the pure up-and-up into the foreseeable future--we'll see how things go with restoration of rights.