New Mexico takes a step backwards

[PappaGun]

The New Mexico Supremes have taken away some of their gun rights.

What is scary to me is that a vehicle in New Mexico is considered an extension of one's home; anything you can do in your home, you can do in your vehicle.

So now can this ruling be applied to one's home?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3494.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fulano]

Ugh...I hope the NRA continues to push this to federal appeal.

I drive to ABQ a lot to visit my brother. I've never had a worry till I read this.

Sounds like the gun is taken only for the duration of the stop. Problem is when I drive THRU new mexico for my summer destination, I'm usually carrying all sorts of guns; shotgun, rifle, two 22 pistols, and at least 3 larger caliber pistols. To think I'd have to dig all them out is not something I'd look forward to. I also carry lots of ammo in a range bag.

Ugh again...

[AEA]

New Mexico has always had a "One Gun" rule with regards to CHL. So you have been very lucky in the past with your trips of many guns.

TITLE 10 PUBLIC SAFETY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
CHAPTER 8 WEAPONS AND EXPLOSIVES
PART 2 CARRYING CONCEALED HANDGUNS

10.8.2.16 TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF LICENSE:
A. Carrying only handguns listed on license. No person shall carry a concealed handgun of a different category or higher caliber than is indicated on the license issued to that person by the department. A licensee shall only carry one (1) concealed handgun at any given time.

[fulano]

New Mexico has always had a "One Gun" rule with regards to CHL. So you have been very lucky in the past with your trips of many guns.

I don't carry a BUG in New Mexico.

The law states you can have only one Concealed Handgun. It states you can have multiple guns in you car. Other than the gun on my person (concealed) the others are being transported and therefore remain in the car and are perfectly legal but with the new ruling, it sounds like, the LEO can take control of "guns" till a traffic stop is complete. The worst time for RTKABA supporters is just after a new law/ruling; I'm sure there will be some confusion for a while. Ugh...

[AEA]

Another law that Cops will undoubtedly enforce incorrectly, causing lots of trouble for people who are obeying the actual law.

In the OP, I don't see how this even went to the Supreme Court. The guy was a Felon and there should not have been a gun in his possession (in car) anyway.

Even saying that.......a Police Officer has the right to seize anything that could be possibly illegal and found in plain view of the Officer.

[JJVP]

The New Mexico Supremes have taken away some of their gun rights.

What is scary to me is that a vehicle in New Mexico is considered an extension of one's home; anything you can do in your home, you can do in your vehicle.

So now can this ruling be applied to one's home?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3494.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is the difference from TX law? The officers can disarm you during a routine stop here.

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

[PappaGun]

The New Mexico Supremes have taken away some of their gun rights.

What is scary to me is that a vehicle in New Mexico is considered an extension of one's home; anything you can do in your home, you can do in your vehicle.

So now can this ruling be applied to one's home?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3494.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is the difference from TX law? The officers can disarm you during a routine stop here.

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

It seems to me (and IANAL) that NM says it can be taken away because it is there.

TX says it can be taken only if the officer believes he or others are unsafe.

On another note...

When I lived there I was stopped twice with a loaded and chambered handgun on my passenger seat and the officers did not mention it. I will not have my handgun out if I am stopped in NM again.

[Excaliber]

I don't see a major issue here.

The courts have traditionally sided with the need of LEO's to take reasonable precautions to protect their safety during a stop. In this case it looks like they've said it's OK to secure a gun for the duration of the stop without articulating any PC for a crime. This has been the law with CHL's in TX for quite some time, and has not arisen in a Motorist Protection Act case to my knowledge because a lawfully concealed gun doesn't have to be declared during a stop and isn't likely to cause an issue as long as it stays put. Officers can also order the driver and passengers out of the car and detain them away from the vehicle if they believe it necessary for safety.

The ruling summary does not include the other circumstances the investigating officers found - e.g. whether or not the occupants were covered with gang tattoos and wearing one percenter patches, etc. which might have an impact on an officer's reasonable assessment of a threat to his safety.

The issue only arose because the gun was in plain view.

It could be avoided entirely by keeping the gun concealed, which is a better tactical choice anyway.

[PappaGun]

I don't see a major issue here....

The issue only arose because the gun was in plain view.

It could be avoided entirely by keeping the gun concealed, which is a better tactical choice anyway.

Yeah, not a major issue but a change in the wrong direction I believe.
If comparing to Texas there are now similarities.
But New Mexico has always considered your vehicle an extension of your home in that anything you can do in your home you can do in your vehicle. This changes that.
Also, NM is an OC state.
Does this also change OC in your vehicle?
Perhaps there were other indicators that the officer witnessed before taking the weapon, but I sill see it as a step backwards for New Mexico citizens.

[The Annoyed Man]

New Mexico has always had a "One Gun" rule with regards to CHL. So you have been very lucky in the past with your trips of many guns.

TITLE 10 PUBLIC SAFETY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
CHAPTER 8 WEAPONS AND EXPLOSIVES
PART 2 CARRYING CONCEALED HANDGUNS

10.8.2.16 TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF LICENSE:
A. Carrying only handguns listed on license. No person shall carry a concealed handgun of a different category or higher caliber than is indicated on the license issued to that person by the department. A licensee shall only carry one (1) concealed handgun at any given time.

I think that there is a discernable difference between carrying one gun plus having a bunch of other guns cased up for transportation along for the ride, and carrying a bunch of guns. I'd like to think that most NM cops would be intelligent enough to know the difference.

I'm not necessarily condoning what the cops did in this particular case, BUT.....one of the things I have often seen posted on this forum is that a holstered gun can be seen as the sign of a "good guy," while a gun in the pocket of your hoodie might tell a cop something else. If I were a cop, I'd be less concerned about a properly holstered gun on someone's person than I would be about a loose gun, sliding around on the floor of the car. The former might tell me that I'm dealing with someone who is likely carrying under some kind of legal authority. the latter might indicate a degree of hinkiness on the part of the other person. Might....maybe. Anyway, I'm not saying it's right. Just saying I think I understand where those particular cops were coming from. And, as it turns out, the dude was illegally in possession of the gun anyway.

[Keith B]

I don't see a major issue here....

The issue only arose because the gun was in plain view.

It could be avoided entirely by keeping the gun concealed, which is a better tactical choice anyway.

Yeah, not a major issue but a change in the wrong direction I believe.
If comparing to Texas there are now similarities.
But New Mexico has always considered your vehicle an extension of your home in that anything you can do in your home you can do in your vehicle. This changes that.
Also, NM is an OC state.
Does this also change OC in your vehicle?
Perhaps there were other indicators that the officer witnessed before taking the weapon, but I sill see it as a step backwards for New Mexico citizens.

I don't see that it is a step backward, but more of just a clarification. A traffic stop is an arrest, so the officer has the right to disarm you for his/her safety in Texas, and now they clarified it in New Mexico also. Additionally, if the police came to your home, and had a search warrant or probable cause to arrest you and entered your house, they could seize any firearm that was visible or concealed to ensure their safety and then release it back at the point they no longer had an issue with safety, just as they do in a traffic stop.

Also, I looked up New Mexico's laws on vehicle carry, and they list home and vehicle on separate lines in the NMSA, so they are considered separate and not really one in the same IMO.

[jmra]

If what these cops did was wrong, I sure am glad I'm not a cop.

Moral of the story, don't leave your gun sitting in plain sight - especially if you are a felon!

[PracticalTactical]

There's nothing really new in the court ruling, and nothing to fear about application to one's home.

First, whether carrying unlicensed or licensed, the officer's have always had authority to temporarily disarm during an encounter. The CHL statutes and admin code also have it in there for licensed carry.

Second, in N.M. a car is not legally considered an extension of your home. I've literally spent days looking through all statutes, admin codes and case law and could never find anything about your car being equivalent to your home. I'm not sure where this myth started or why it is perpetuated so easily.

The laws do, however, all carve out private vehicles or "other private means of conveyance" in relation to guns if the driver is 19+ years old. So, yes, your vehicle gets the same exception that you get in your home re: guns, but nothing says it's an extension of said home.

Plus, some examples of non-extension:
-People under age 19 are not allowed to have a loaded handgun in their cars, but they can have an unloaded one on the way to an activity requiring the use of a handgun. At age 18, one becomes one's own legal guardian and can have a loaded gun at their own home or at the homes of parents or grandparents if under 18. For anybody under 19, though, the car is far from an extension of your home.
-People under 19 cannot have a gun in their car at high school or universities, but could have one in their own apartment or house.
-it's still illegal to have sex in your car if somebody sees you doing it, but that would be perfectly legal in your home where you have an expectation of privacy that you do not have in your car.
-It's also perfectly legal to get hammered at your house, but not while driving your car. Once again, the car isn't considered an extension of your home re: alcohol.

I'm sure we could come up with more examples, but I think I've proved my point.

Because the car is not an extension of your home, a legal action relating to car carry will not necessarily affect carry in one's own home.

[tanker1983]

Lessons learned:

1. Don't be a felon
2. "Out of plain view" means "Out of plain view"
3. No real "unchartered ground" here.

Gotta follow the

[tacticool]

It seems to me (and IANAL) that NM says it can be taken away because it is there.

TX says it can be taken only if the officer believes he or others are unsafe.

In practice that seems to be the same thing for too many cops in Texas, looking at all the first hand reports from CHL who were disarmed during traffic stops in Texas.