.380 for Sister
Moderator: carlson1
.380 for Sister
This may have already been discussed. I am looking for a gun for my sister. We have homed in on a .380 after shooting everything from .22 to .40 cal. It just seems the most comfortable for her. She has been shooting a fair amount lately and might be able to handle a gun with a safety but I am philosophically opposed to a novice or infrequent shooter having a gun with a safety! So, my question to youse guys is Do you know of a gun similar to a Walther PK 380 in size that does not have a safety? I am thinking something operationally like a Glock, but .380 cal. She will be carrying in purse so weight and overall size not too important just nothing full frame. Nothing expensive as a Sig. =
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CHL since 1996
Glock 26
NEF Pump Pardner 12 ga
Kel Tec P-32
S&W Model 49
Beretta 950 (.25 cal)
CHL since 1996
Glock 26
NEF Pump Pardner 12 ga
Kel Tec P-32
S&W Model 49
Beretta 950 (.25 cal)
- G.A. Heath
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Re: .380 for Sister
I would suggest that she look into a Bersa Thunder, while I haven't owned one I have shot several and I know a few of women shooters who love them. I also recommend that your sister get training from a certified instructor (other than her CHL class). With that said, lets look into the safety comment. If one trains and practices around using a firearm with a safety then its operation becomes second nature and there is no issue of "forgetting" to disengage it. Now for purse carry, lets just say that its a BAD IDEA! Women tend to lay their purses down, walk away from them, or even leave them in the vehicle and take their wallets to avoid carrying the weight. This makes it easy for someone else (Thief, child, ect) to get the purse and its contents (Including the firearm). Additionally purses tend to get filled with junk in every pocket, adding a loaded firearm to that makes for a dangerous situation and can reduce the reliability of the firearm. I will point out that I once saw a pistol with several broken pieces of hard candy lodged in the barrel. If she insists on purse carry have her invest in a purse designed for the job. It should have a holster built into it, the strap and how it attaches to the purse should be re-enforced (to resist breakage during an attempted purse snatching). Additionally a ladies class on carry with purse is strongly recommend as it will teach things like carrying the strap on the shoulder opposite of the purse (Example: purse on right, strap on left shoulder) to help prevent it from being snatched.
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R.I.P. Sig, 08/21/2019 - 11/18/2019
Re: .380 for Sister
Agree with GA on purse concealment and safety mechanisms.
If she MUST go in purse with no external safety, try a .38 caliber 5-shot snub nose revolver. More reliable, stiffer trigger should be "safer" for purse carry. If she's tried an airweight aluminum snubby and didn't like it, have her try a steel frame .38 like Ruger SP101 or S&W model 60. Big difference in felt recoil.
As for .380s, if she is recoil averse, you're simply not going to find another .380 that shoots as "softly" as the Walther PK380. This is because the PK380 uses a more forgiving short recoil locked breach action. Other similar sized .380 pistols (Bersa Thunder, Walther PPK, Sig P230/232, Browning BDA, and Beretta 84/85) use a straight blowback action that sends all recoil impulse directly back to the webbing between trigger finger and thumb of the shooter's hand. Typically the recoil impulse of a blowback .380 is similar to that of a similar sized 9mm firing non +P ammo (ex. Kahr, Ruger LC9, Taurus 709 Slim etc). I've shot both, and my 9mm Walther PPS has LESS felt recoil than a Bersa Thunder .380. The PPS would fit all your needs in a bigger/better cartridge, but price is high (about $600). A Kahr CW9 would be about $400-$450 and offer much the same characteristics.
If she MUST go in purse with no external safety, try a .38 caliber 5-shot snub nose revolver. More reliable, stiffer trigger should be "safer" for purse carry. If she's tried an airweight aluminum snubby and didn't like it, have her try a steel frame .38 like Ruger SP101 or S&W model 60. Big difference in felt recoil.
As for .380s, if she is recoil averse, you're simply not going to find another .380 that shoots as "softly" as the Walther PK380. This is because the PK380 uses a more forgiving short recoil locked breach action. Other similar sized .380 pistols (Bersa Thunder, Walther PPK, Sig P230/232, Browning BDA, and Beretta 84/85) use a straight blowback action that sends all recoil impulse directly back to the webbing between trigger finger and thumb of the shooter's hand. Typically the recoil impulse of a blowback .380 is similar to that of a similar sized 9mm firing non +P ammo (ex. Kahr, Ruger LC9, Taurus 709 Slim etc). I've shot both, and my 9mm Walther PPS has LESS felt recoil than a Bersa Thunder .380. The PPS would fit all your needs in a bigger/better cartridge, but price is high (about $600). A Kahr CW9 would be about $400-$450 and offer much the same characteristics.
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Re: .380 for Sister
I wouldn't be overly concerned about a striker-fired gun in a purse going off accidentally; most have a pretty long trigger stroke. Perhaps more from a dirt/debris consideration (to keep gum wrappers out of the muzzle!), as well as not being easily seen whenever the purse is opened, consider putting it in a small nylon case. I have had a Kahr P380 for about a year now that I regularly carry and am quite happy with it. Very small, controllable and reliable. It pretty much disappears in the pocket of my cargo shorts. To break up the shape I use an unzipped external hard drive case from Case Logic as a pocket holster and for general storage ($8 at Fry's).
Professional Training, Competition, Risk Avoidance, Situational Awareness, Tactical Mindset, 100,000+ rounds down range - the hardware is the least important part of the equation...
Re: .380 for Sister
Thanks Folks. All good words.
NRA Life Member
CHL since 1996
Glock 26
NEF Pump Pardner 12 ga
Kel Tec P-32
S&W Model 49
Beretta 950 (.25 cal)
CHL since 1996
Glock 26
NEF Pump Pardner 12 ga
Kel Tec P-32
S&W Model 49
Beretta 950 (.25 cal)
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Re: .380 for Sister
I have a Bersa Thunder 380 and a S&W bodyguard 380. I hate the bersa. Very snappy. I have also had a few fte with it.
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Re: .380 for Sister
I think you men are just jealous you can't carry in a pretty purse
there is nothing wrong with carrying in a purse....in this heat I love to wear sundresses, so I carry my LCP in my purse all the time. I put it in a pocket holster, put that in a dedicated zipper. I typically carry a large bag. This purse is not a "gun purse". I do have a couple of gun purses, also. I've carrying for years, many of those carrying only in purses, I've NEVER walked away from my purse.

there is nothing wrong with carrying in a purse....in this heat I love to wear sundresses, so I carry my LCP in my purse all the time. I put it in a pocket holster, put that in a dedicated zipper. I typically carry a large bag. This purse is not a "gun purse". I do have a couple of gun purses, also. I've carrying for years, many of those carrying only in purses, I've NEVER walked away from my purse.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
Re: .380 for Sister
Have you looked at the Kahr 380? It's striker fired. I have a kahr in 40cal and its got a great trigger pull and nice controllable recoil for the snappy caliber. I could just imagine how nice the 380 would be.
Sputz
Sputz
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Re: .380 for Sister
I saw a video once on youtube describing how a particular ring of thieves worked. They would go to a gas station and begin airing up their tires or something. When they spotted a woman alone they would prepare to leave. As she got out of the vehicle to pump the gas she would get her card out and then fling her purse over to the passenger side floorboard in the assumption that it would be safer there. Once she had turned away and her attention was on pumping the fuel the thieves would drive up where one would get out, keeping low and in the blind spot, quietly open the passenger car door and grab the purse and get back in their vehicle and then drive off.
Or sitting in a restaurant ladies hang their purses on the back of their chairs or sit it on the floor right next to them (ewww). A thief has an accomplice make a distraction in the opposite direction and the purse is gone in an instant.
I can also see something (lipstick tube perhaps) get into the trigger hosing and with just the right torque as the lady handles her purse manage to set off a round.
I, novice that I am about firearms, agree with the notion of getting a holster for the purse and possibly even a special gun purse.
Just my .02 worth.
Or sitting in a restaurant ladies hang their purses on the back of their chairs or sit it on the floor right next to them (ewww). A thief has an accomplice make a distraction in the opposite direction and the purse is gone in an instant.
I can also see something (lipstick tube perhaps) get into the trigger hosing and with just the right torque as the lady handles her purse manage to set off a round.
I, novice that I am about firearms, agree with the notion of getting a holster for the purse and possibly even a special gun purse.
Just my .02 worth.
Re: .380 for Sister
sounds to me like you let Sis shoot your PPK380?
A PK380 is probably one of the easiest to shoot, because of the frame size and ergonomics.
I have a bunch of 380s. The little pocket guns like Keltec, LCP, Diamondback etc are very snappy to shoot. I would bet money she won't like it one bit.
They all have locked breech, but they don't have safeties.
The 380s I have with safeties are all bigger - Sig P238, Star, Llama etc.
I do have one that would be perfect, but they are scarce and no longer made - American Arms Escort.
I think it's the perfect ladies gun, and possibly the prettiest. Flat as a Keltec, but with a very nice trigger

A PK380 is probably one of the easiest to shoot, because of the frame size and ergonomics.
I have a bunch of 380s. The little pocket guns like Keltec, LCP, Diamondback etc are very snappy to shoot. I would bet money she won't like it one bit.
They all have locked breech, but they don't have safeties.
The 380s I have with safeties are all bigger - Sig P238, Star, Llama etc.
I do have one that would be perfect, but they are scarce and no longer made - American Arms Escort.
I think it's the perfect ladies gun, and possibly the prettiest. Flat as a Keltec, but with a very nice trigger

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“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
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Re: .380 for Sister
I would put the Walther PPK near the top but, I prefer the Sig 232, or a used Sig 230. It is a fine pistol to carry and conceal. It does have a European mag release. That means the mag release lever is located at the bottom of the magazine and not near the trigger as in the majority of pistols. Takes a little getting used to.
- Divided Attention
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Re: .380 for Sister
I understand the following concerns, but there are also "answers" with some forethought.
Wysiwyg101 wrote:I saw a video once on youtube describing how a particular ring of thieves worked. They would go to a gas station and begin airing up their tires or something. When they spotted a woman alone they would prepare to leave. As she got out of the vehicle to pump the gas she would get her card out and then fling her purse over to the passenger side floorboard in the assumption that it would be safer there. Once she had turned away and her attention was on pumping the fuel the thieves would drive up where one would get out, keeping low and in the blind spot, quietly open the passenger car door and grab the purse and get back in their vehicle and then drive off.
Purse sits behind my feet between them and the car seat - if I am purse carrying the purse I have has a special pocket with a holster in it OR the pocket holster I use in other purses are situated so I can access them easily.
Or sitting in a restaurant ladies hang their purses on the back of their chairs or sit it on the floor right next to them (ewww). A thief has an accomplice make a distraction in the opposite direction and the purse is gone in an instant.
If I am purse carrying I will put the purse across my knee - they will have to take my leg with it.
I can also see something (lipstick tube perhaps) get into the trigger hosing and with just the right torque as the lady handles her purse manage to set off a round.
I personally NEVER carry just dropped in my purse. My gun is in a special holster in a pocket of the purse allocated specifically to the gun.
I, novice that I am about firearms, agree with the notion of getting a holster for the purse and possibly even a special gun purse.
All that being said, I wanted to throw in that I love my P238 - it is fun to shoot and quite accurate. I don't mind my husbands Bodyguard 380, but it does have an extremely long trigger pull... sure like my "P-shooter" and there are models that are not as pricey as the Liberty version I got. I am a sentimental fool and it reminded me of my Dad.
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle; Psalm 144:1-2
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CHL - 2010; NRA RSO - 2011, NRA Chief RSO - 2014
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Lifetime NRA Member - 2013
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Re: .380 for Sister
Well if you are settled on the .380 ok but I would recommend a .38 or 9mm. I know many here will say a .380 is fine if you do your job but after doing some of my own water jug tests and other media and doing countless research on the .380acp I came to realize it is a back up cartridge that lacks in the most important category, penetration. Most .380 jhp ammo will penetrate between 6-10inches in ballistic gel. A few get close to twelve inches but not on a shot to shot basis. This is why so many carry FMJ or staggered clips of jhp and FMJ. This isn't because the bullet doesn't get enough velocity but it just doesn't have enough sectional density (weight). Don't get me wrong, if you have a clear chest cavity shot and no obstructions like limbs or any other object a .380 can stop an attacker but why chance it?
I also owned a Bersa .380 and I would never recommend the one I owned as a primary carry. Why? Like Function 12 said it will jam from time to time. Like clock work it would jam every 50-100 rounds. It wouldn't matter what ammo I shot or who shot it. It would eventually jam up. I only carried it as a back up and have since switched to a .38 as my backup. Some will say it never jams but I have seen to many .380acp Bersas jam at the range to trust it as my main carry. The most reliable .380s I have shot were the sigs. I think it was the 238 but I am not sure.
As for purse carry like others have echoed it is not a great idea for all the reason others have mentioned. I would also recommend a Ruger SP-101. I have had at least 10 women shoot mine with no experience whatsoever and the simple function of the revolver worked well with them. Also, the extra weight helped to soak up recoil and there are no problems with pulling back the slide in the event of a jam or misfire. Many women can not do this fast and easily without a lot of practice or because some like my girlfriend lack the arm strength to do so with any great urgency. Arm strength aside any shooter who is inexperienced or who does not plan on practicing clearing a jam or misfire should stick with a revolver IMO. Many people get there CHL and go once or twice a year to the range. People on this board are usually avid shooters and practice regularly but many are not like us.
I also owned a Bersa .380 and I would never recommend the one I owned as a primary carry. Why? Like Function 12 said it will jam from time to time. Like clock work it would jam every 50-100 rounds. It wouldn't matter what ammo I shot or who shot it. It would eventually jam up. I only carried it as a back up and have since switched to a .38 as my backup. Some will say it never jams but I have seen to many .380acp Bersas jam at the range to trust it as my main carry. The most reliable .380s I have shot were the sigs. I think it was the 238 but I am not sure.
As for purse carry like others have echoed it is not a great idea for all the reason others have mentioned. I would also recommend a Ruger SP-101. I have had at least 10 women shoot mine with no experience whatsoever and the simple function of the revolver worked well with them. Also, the extra weight helped to soak up recoil and there are no problems with pulling back the slide in the event of a jam or misfire. Many women can not do this fast and easily without a lot of practice or because some like my girlfriend lack the arm strength to do so with any great urgency. Arm strength aside any shooter who is inexperienced or who does not plan on practicing clearing a jam or misfire should stick with a revolver IMO. Many people get there CHL and go once or twice a year to the range. People on this board are usually avid shooters and practice regularly but many are not like us.
Re: .380 for Sister
I agree with you on the revolver. Any DA revolver is the best choice for someone who will not likely spend any time at the range with any regularity.
If it has to be a semi-auto, it should be a true double-action, ideally with external hammer
If it has to be a semi-auto, it should be a true double-action, ideally with external hammer
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“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch