Russian Steel-Cased Ammo

[bkj]

Some of the steel case ammo is also steel jacketed. This can cause sparks. At a range with a lot of unburned power coating the walls it is a fire hazard. May even be a problem now at outdoor range with lot of dried grass.

[The Annoyed Man]

My big objection to Russian steel-cased ammo is based on two things.....

One is related specifically to AR15s. I have never ever seen a brass case stuck in an AR chamber. I have seen Russian made steel cases stuck in AR at a number of times. I have seen people sticking wooden dowels down their barrels to try and bang the steel case out with a hammer. I've heard of steel case so stuck that the extractor tore the base off of the case....which means you have to ream the chamber to get it out. The vanished ammo is most famous for this. When I see varnished ammo of any caliber, I don't really care about the rationale for the varnish, I won't use it in my guns. That stuff does eventually transfer to your chamber, making cleaning a cast-iron pain in the butt. And if you don't get it all out, you risk feeding/jamming problems.

The second reason is simply that I want the metal of the case to be softer than the metal of my chamber. I know that steel cased ammo is not as hard as the steel chamber of my rifle, but it is closer in hardness than brass. Why fool with it, when there is a ready alternative that I KNOW is softer. Plus, the brass is self-lubricating, making feeding and extraction easier.

I have used aluminum cased practice ammo in my pistols, although it isn't my favorite.

[CEOofEVIL]

Very interesting. Went to my cities only indoor range last week (which rocks! I'm in love with that place), and they stated that they do not allow any green tip/SS109 type ammo for AR's. I definitely understand why, and assume this goes for anything else with a steel core as well. Ironically, I did see two LEOs there that were shooting ARs and they were sparking like crazy off the back stop. Being a noob to indoor ranges, is sparking with rifle calibers that normal?

Regarding steel case ammo, that is about all I use. Monarch Steel is dirt cheap ($8/box last week, I believe it is made by Barnaul) and I've never had an issue with it through all but one of my guns. And it was technically my wifes PX4 SC in 9mm. Think it just still isn't broken in, as it even has problems with higher quality brass ammo. FWIW my AK ( Saiga .223) eats the steel Monarch like candy, but that's the last gun I would expect to have problems with any ammo.

Totally understand why some folks don’t care for it though. Monarch Steel in particular is pretty dirty, but hey, I was going to clean the guns anyway.

[Heartland Patriot]

Steel-case Russian ammo, no matter what the brand, is generally pretty dirty stuff. And I have had cases stick in my AR and Mini-14 (polymer coated, not lacquered). This happened in the hot weather this summer and I did have to use a rod to remove them. As you can imagine, I was NOT a happy camper. Previous to that, I had never had a steel case stick in any firearm I had fired the stuff through. I think it has something to do with the expansion of the steel and the ability of the heat to dissipate from the firearm. For now, I'm going to stick with brass cases through the AR and Mini, and just put the steel stuff through the the AK, since it really doesn't care anyway, ha ha. Later, during the winter, I'm going to go and test my theory and put some of the same stuff through my AR again. IF it all extracts and ejects fine, I'll stick with using it only in cooler weather. If it does stick, I'll just stay away from it. But, finding reasonably priced brass case NON-FMJ, that is HP or SP, (since the only range within decent driving distance of me prohibits FMJ rifle ammo) is a pain in the neck. So, if someone on here knows a good source for inexpensive 5.56mm or .223 HP or SP ammo, please PM me or reply here. The world is awash in FMJ versions but only the Russian steel case seems to be made in HP that is for target shooting and plinking, not expensive hunting quality ammo. For pistols and revolvers, while I have used steel case a couple of times, that has been a pretty seldom occurrence. Lots of good, inexpensive brass case out there in all the most common calibers, thank goodness.

[The Annoyed Man]

Steel-case Russian ammo, no matter what the brand, is generally pretty dirty stuff. And I have had cases stick in my AR and Mini-14 (polymer coated, not lacquered). This happened in the hot weather this summer and I did have to use a rod to remove them. As you can imagine, I was NOT a happy camper. Previous to that, I had never had a steel case stick in any firearm I had fired the stuff through. I think it has something to do with the expansion of the steel and the ability of the heat to dissipate from the firearm. For now, I'm going to stick with brass cases through the AR and Mini, and just put the steel stuff through the the AK, since it really doesn't care anyway, ha ha. Later, during the winter, I'm going to go and test my theory and put some of the same stuff through my AR again. IF it all extracts and ejects fine, I'll stick with using it only in cooler weather. If it does stick, I'll just stay away from it. But, finding reasonably priced brass case NON-FMJ, that is HP or SP, (since the only range within decent driving distance of me prohibits FMJ rifle ammo) is a pain in the neck. So, if someone on here knows a good source for inexpensive 5.56mm or .223 HP or SP ammo, please PM me or reply here. The world is awash in FMJ versions but only the Russian steel case seems to be made in HP that is for target shooting and plinking, not expensive hunting quality ammo. For pistols and revolvers, while I have used steel case a couple of times, that has been a pretty seldom occurrence. Lots of good, inexpensive brass case out there in all the most common calibers, thank goodness.

I regularly find 5.56 brass cased 55 grain soft points at Academy from Monarch—which are made by Prvi Partisan, by the way, not Bernaul. Price is typically in the $8.95 range.... give or take a buck. I have seen this same ammo on sale at Academy for as low as $6.95, but that isn't typical. But even at $8.95, that isn't a bad price.

[Heartland Patriot]

TAM, that isn't too bad a price for brass case soft-points. I'll admit I haven't been into an Academy for a while. I would buy several boxes for certain if they had it on sale for $6.95. Prvi Partizan is some pretty good stuff, too. Thanks for the info.

[Adraper]

I've been doing some research on Ar carbine class. i'm hoping to take one soon and wanted to find the pitfalls. One thing I found was that coated steel cased ammo can stick in the AR chamber due to heat for previous shots followed by short period of cool down. For example, multiple shots from one position then transition to another before firing again. I've never had it happen though.

[Commander Cody]

My big objection to Russian steel-cased ammo is based on two things.....

One is related specifically to AR15s. I have never ever seen a brass case stuck in an AR chamber. I have seen Russian made steel cases stuck in AR at a number of times. I have seen people sticking wooden dowels down their barrels to try and bang the steel case out with a hammer. I've heard of steel case so stuck that the extractor tore the base off of the case....which means you have to ream the chamber to get it out. The vanished ammo is most famous for this. When I see varnished ammo of any caliber, I don't really care about the rationale for the varnish, I won't use it in my guns. That stuff does eventually transfer to your chamber, making cleaning a cast-iron pain in the butt. And if you don't get it all out, you risk feeding/jamming problems.

The second reason is simply that I want the metal of the case to be softer than the metal of my chamber. I know that steel cased ammo is not as hard as the steel chamber of my rifle, but it is closer in hardness than brass. Why fool with it, when there is a ready alternative that I KNOW is softer. Plus, the brass is self-lubricating, making feeding and extraction easier.

I have used aluminum cased practice ammo in my pistols, although it isn't my favorite.
Those of us who were bewitched by his eloquence on the campaign trail chose to ignore some disquieting aspects of his biography: that he had accomplished very little before he ran for president.
—Drew Westen, prof. of psychology, specialist in political messaging (and a democrat), Emory University

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member

Posts: 8481
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: Grapevine, Texas

[CEOofEVIL]

...I regularly find 5.56 brass cased 55 grain soft points at Academy from Monarch—which are made by Prvi Partisan, by the way, not Bernaul...

Wow, I suppose depending on which "Level" of Ammo and what Caliber and type, they have the ammuntion made by different factories. I can definitely confirm the Monarch Steel 9x19 is made by Barnaul:



The Monarch Steel 7.62x39 FMJ's I have don't seem to have any Proof Marks/Factory Marks on the boxes to indicate who made them aside from a "Made in Russia" line on the side of the box. I've read elsewhere that the Blue Box Monarch in 7.62x39 is from Barnaul too, but I'm not 100% certain. I bought a ton of this (The 7.62x39) ammo about 3 years back, so it could be that the packaging has changed or it's from a different factory now. Hopefully the wife and I will be shooting this weekend, so I'll pick up a few boxes of the Monarch Steel for the calibers I have: 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 9x19, .223 Rem - Don't need ammo for something I can't shoot . Thanks for the info TAM, as I've long wondered which factory actually produces some of this overseas ammo.

I'll post what I can find out in a new thread though, as not to possibly hijack this thread. My main concern is that the Monarch Steel line doesn't have Steel Cores - I'll have to see if I can find a big enough magnet to test this.

Edit: I just looked in my Safe and I found an errant Monarch Steel .308 round that has a Barnaul headstamp on the case. If memory serves correctly, I bought a box of it if mid April when a buddy and I took his M1A out shooting and this was a straggler we didn't finish off. Also, I found a magnet and both the bullets of the 7.62x39 and .308 stuck to it. This means either the are indeed steel core, - or - they have a Bi-metal jacket (Copper over Steel). I wish I knew which for sure, but I'm still looking into it.

Edit 2: Alrighty... So being curious if either the x39 or 308 Monarch Steel rounds I had were bi-metal or steel core, I did a little experiment:






Verdict: They are NOT steel core, and are just normal bi-metal bullets and should be safe for indoor ranges. Since I don't have any .223 rounds right now, I'll get ahold of some when I can and check those as well. I don't expect the .223 to be steel core either. On the 308 round part of the lead core actually seperated from the jacket when cut I it - I went ahead and ran the magnet over the jacket and voila - it stuck. Running the magnet over the (clearly) lead core resulted in nada.

I'd hesitate to say that all "Monarch Steel" rifle rounds from Barnaul are just Bi-Metal jacketed, but at the same time I don't think they'd be making steel core rounds for the Monarch name either, especially considering that the Steel line-up is generally marketed as budget range/plinking round.

[74novaman]

I'm pretty sure the x39 stuff is just a bimetal jacket. Can't remember where I found that but I feel pretty confident that the monarch stuff isn't steel core.

[AEA]

Kinda puts the magnet test at ranges useless.
Argue with them or just go somewhere else.

[CEOofEVIL]

Kinda puts the magnet test at ranges useless.
Argue with them or just go somewhere else.

Funny you should mention that!

I went to my local indoor range this evening and took my SKS. I was planning on shooting the 123gr. FMJ Monarch Steel rounds I have, but the Gent' at the front asked what kind of ammo I was using. I told him, and he said they do not allow anything steel core and so on. I informed him that if you tried running a magnet over the bullet that it would indeed stick, but that this would occur because it has a Bi-metal jacket and NOT a steel core. He sort of shrugged and said that "they do the magnet test". I explained to him how the rounds are made and re-iterated that even though the magnet sticks to the bullet that they are NOT steel core or AP rounds but rather just have steel mixed with the copper jacket. I let him know I actually removed a bullet from one of the rounds, and physically cut into it to check if it had a steel core or not - and even seperated that jacket of the round from the inner lead core and ran the magnet test over each which resulted in only the jacket sticking, but he sort of just stayed quiet. I let him know that the next time I come in I'd bring them the round to show them so that they can inspect it from themselves.

He said that was cool, but that he still couldn't let me use them because they need to be careful about damage to the backstop. I let him know I understood, and stressed that I wasn't trying to be a pain in the butt or anything but was only trying to be helpful and he understood.

Either way, I didn't get to shoot my SKS. Ah well... I did manage about 150 round of .22 though, so not all was lost! Thankfully those are not "steel core",

So yeah, either they know something I don't and even bi-metal jacketed rounds will hurt their backstop (which he didn't say anyting about) or he just wasn't understanding and was only following what his superiors told him. I'm going to see if I can email one of the higher ups and talk to him about it since he seems much more experienced (also a LEO and CHL instructor) to see what he has to say.