Question on Defensive knife laws

[speedsix]

...I'll bet that's a misprint, but there it is...I think what they meant to say was no knife that locks open OVER 5.5"...that would make sense...but as it is, it makes no sense...but is the law...

[apostate]

...I'll bet that's a misprint, but there it is...I think what they meant to say was no knife that locks open OVER 5.5"...that would make sense...but as it is, it makes no sense...but is the law...

Au contraire mon frère. A redundant law makes no sense. A law that closes a loophole (in their eyes) would make complete sense from their perspective.

[Skiprr]

Yep. That law has been on the books in San Antonio for many years. It was totally intentional.

[AdioSS]

has anybody heard of or seen a case in San Antonio where this was enforced?

The solution is to carry a fixed blade there.

[strider67]

I believe Chorpus Christi, like San Antonio, also has a city law that you may not carry a knife with a blade longer than 3". Not 100% sure on the details, however.

[wgoforth]

I believe Chorpus Christi, like San Antonio, also has a city law that you may not carry a knife with a blade longer than 3". Not 100% sure on the details, however.

Again, how does that fare with state preemption? If cities are not permitted to be more restrictive than the state on hadgun laws, does that preemption not apply to knives too?

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

According to state law I cannot carry a knife over 5.5". No problem there.

However, under SA ordinance I cannot carry a knife that is under 5.5" or with a locking mechanism that when opened makes it a fixed blade knife.

So what in the heck am I supposed to carry?
A 5.5" blade. Ok, got that but all knives these days have a locking mechanism of some sort. I cannot carry my favorite knife as it is 3.52" and has a locking mechanism. I cannot carry my very expensive Leatherman I just bought because it has a 2.8" blade also with a locking mechanism.

How can they get away with saying that a knife that has a locking mechanism when opened makes it a fixed blade? This is completely false.

Sec. 21-17. Certain knives prohibited generally; exceptions; penalty for violation.
It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally or knowingly carry on or about his person a knife with a blade less than five and one-half (5 1/2) inches in length, which knife is equipped with a lock mechanism so that upon opening, it becomes a fixed blade knife.
The above prohibition set forth in subsection (a) shall not be applicable to a person carrying such a knife:
In the actual discharge of his duties as a peace officer, a member of the armed forces or national guard, or a guard employed by a penal institution;
On his own premises or premises under his control;
Traveling;
Engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other lawful sporting activity; or
Using such a knife in connection with a lawful occupation, during such utilization.
(Code 1959, 26-28.1)
Cross references: Regulation of firearms and weapons, 21-151 et seq.; possession of a knife, 21-155.

Now for you all with the assisted open knives. How do you legally carry those?

According to state law I cannot carry my favorite knife as I can fling it open with a snap of the wrist.

...(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath and that opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle or opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force. The term does not include a knife that has a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure and that requires exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure and open the knife.

[Ameer]

Again, how does that fare with state preemption? If cities are not permitted to be more restrictive than the state on hadgun laws, does that preemption not apply to knives too?

Knives aren't firearms.

[wgoforth]

Again, how does that fare with state preemption? If cities are not permitted to be more restrictive than the state on hadgun laws, does that preemption not apply to knives too?

Knives aren't firearms.

I understand that, but I thought state preemption was on state penal code laws period. I was saying if we don't let them get away with further restriction on firearms, citing preemption, why do we on knives? Is there a limit on preemption?

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I believe Wayne is talking about the section below.

§ 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.

[johnson0317]

Now for you all with the assisted open knives. How do you legally carry those?

According to state law I cannot carry my favorite knife as I can fling it open with a snap of the wrist.

The question is whether or not you can make it open with only a flick of the wrist. My assisted opening knives will not open unless I use the peg to start the assist "procedure". If you can not make it open simply by using centrifugal force it, then it is not a problem.

There is actually a good site out there about this. I was looking at it the other night. I will have to see if I can find it again.

RJ

Edit: Here is that site. It looks like it is from a university, specifically a campus police site. It contains District Attorney opinions, and case law. Use it for what it is worth: http://ss.utpb.edu/media/files/universi ... N-LAWS.pdf

[speedsix]

According to state law I cannot carry a knife over 5.5". No problem there.

However, under SA ordinance I cannot carry a knife that is under 5.5" or with a locking mechanism that when opened makes it a fixed blade knife.

So what in the heck am I supposed to carry?
A 5.5" blade. Ok, got that but all knives these days have a locking mechanism of some sort. I cannot carry my favorite knife as it is 3.52" and has a locking mechanism. I cannot carry my very expensive Leatherman I just bought because it has a 2.8" blade also with a locking mechanism.

How can they get away with saying that a knife that has a locking mechanism when opened makes it a fixed blade? This is completely false.

Sec. 21-17. Certain knives prohibited generally; exceptions; penalty for violation.
It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally or knowingly carry on or about his person a knife with a blade less than five and one-half (5 1/2) inches in length, which knife is equipped with a lock mechanism so that upon opening, it becomes a fixed blade knife.
The above prohibition set forth in subsection (a) shall not be applicable to a person carrying such a knife:
In the actual discharge of his duties as a peace officer, a member of the armed forces or national guard, or a guard employed by a penal institution;
On his own premises or premises under his control;
Traveling;
Engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other lawful sporting activity; or
Using such a knife in connection with a lawful occupation, during such utilization.
(Code 1959, 26-28.1)
Cross references: Regulation of firearms and weapons, 21-151 et seq.; possession of a knife, 21-155.

Now for you all with the assisted open knives. How do you legally carry those?

According to state law I cannot carry my favorite knife as I can fling it open with a snap of the wrist.

...(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath and that opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle or opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force. The term does not include a knife that has a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure and that requires exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure and open the knife.

...doesn't say "or", it says "...which knife is..." so that means you can't carry a knife with a blade less than 5 1/2" IF it has a lock...my son recently moved to SA and I bought him a Case with about a 3" blade...which does NOT lock...so it's legal...and, in strict interpretation of English...if your knife IS 5 1/2" AND locks open, it is legal...don't know if it's been contested in court...but that's how it reads...


...carried a Puma back in the day which most folks had to put hands on the blade to open...but I learned to open it by a flick of the wrist...it wasn't DESIGNED that way...and there are a lot of knives around that work that way...if you know how...the key is not to stand around _______* them open like a teenager...and the question won't come up...you don't have to SHOW everything you KNOW...

*...the ignorant auto-censor doesn't know that ef el eye see kay eye en gee isn't a cussword...ain't that somethin....

[srothstein]

has anybody heard of or seen a case in San Antonio where this was enforced?

The solution is to carry a fixed blade there.

Yes, when I was on the force there, i know of several officers who wrote tickets enforcing that law. They considered it a tool to use agianst gang members, which I defined as people they did not like.

[srothstein]

I believe Wayne is talking about the section below.

§ 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.

If he is, then he is misapplying this section. This would stop San Antonio from making knives longer than 5.5 inches illegal or legal, since there is a state law on it. but there is no state law governing the behavior of carrying a lock blade knife with a blade under 5.5 inches. So San Antonio can make that behavior illegal if they so desire.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I believe Wayne is talking about the section below.

§ 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.

If he is, then he is misapplying this section. This would stop San Antonio from making knives longer than 5.5 inches illegal or legal, since there is a state law on it. but there is no state law governing the behavior of carrying a lock blade knife with a blade under 5.5 inches. So San Antonio can make that behavior illegal if they so desire.

Basically what SA is doing is trying to make us go unarmed and defenseless. It is ridiculous.

Since you were on the force there. Is my Leathrman illegal? The knife on it is under 5.5" and it locks but it is a multi-tool and the knife is not the main tool.