Kilgore's hardware, League City...carry or no carry?

[Kevinf2349]

Under normal circumstances I would not hesitate to carry into a hardware store (although I am boycotting Home Depot for totally a different reason), however, Kilgore's Hardware on Main Street in League City has a complication that I want to seek advice on. You see, it has a fully functioning Post Office inside the store. It isn't isolated in that it is just a psrt of them main floor of the store...in fact it sits between the garden section and the flags/mail boxes etc.

So does this make the whole store 'off limits' for carrying or is this a special case where carry is allowed as long as you don't use the Post Office?

Thanks in advance.

[speedsix]

...I don't know legally, but in the old days, when a lot of Post Offices were in stores, and burglars would hit a store...they'd draw a chalk line around the area that made the Post Office up...and write that they didn't cross that line...they knew the Postal Inspectors WOULD get 'em...so it seems to me that only the area rented for the Post Office would be off limits...

[Mahzik]

My local Ace has a post office as well. The clerks working the "post office" are Ace employees, not USPS employees. The "post office" has hours outside of what you would expect from a USPS facility and accept packages on holidays when the USPS is closed. When the "post office" is closed, the clerks have to work the regular floor. There is a sign posted outside regarding the armed robbery of a postal facility, but no 30.06 or other prohibition. I'll be interested in finding out what others think about carrying there.

[texanron]

I carry into Ace Hardware on Jones Rd in Houston frequently. They also have one of those Post Office locations inside the store. I carry every time I visit this location even when I conduct a transaction at the Post Office counter. This Ace Hardware store has a sign on the door welcoming concealed firearms. There is a thread on it here somewhere.

[speedsix]

...I'd gladly pay a bit more to make that hardware more prosperous...or any other business that posted such invitations...great news...

[apostate]

It doesn't sound like a Federal Facility based on the description.

[Mahzik]

Texanron - looks like we're neighbors. I can actually see the lights at the Ace at Louetta and Grant from my house.

[BrianSW99]

The post offices you find inside stores and other businesses are not federal property and therefore not off-limits to carry. The store is contracting with the postal service to provide those services. Stand alone post offices are the ones you have to avoid.

Brian

[Kevinf2349]

Excellent. Thank you all.

[texanron]

Texanron - looks like we're neighbors. I can actually see the lights at the Ace at Louetta and Grant from my house.

Howdy neighbor! It has come to my attention that there are quite a few of us running around our neighborhood.

[thatguy]

I live close by Kilgore's but did not notice the Post Office inside.. Will have to go check it out.

[ddstuder]

This came up about a year ago about a store with a post office in it. I asked a friend of mine who is a CHL instructor about it. He asked the people in Austin about it. Here is there response and a link to the thread last year.


viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37079

I asked my CHL instructor buddy this question. He presented the question to the folks in Austin, and here is the reply.




Hi Mr. E,



Thank you for your question.



According to the Federal Firearms Act, whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.



Under your scenario of a convenient store and post office sharing the same open space, the convenient store would not trump the federal law governing unlawful carrying in a post office. The Texas requirement of a 30.06 sign would not apply to a federal facility and therefore a sign is not needed for the post office/convenient store.



If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.





Thanks,



Office of Regulatory Counsel







From: CHLinstructors
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 11:32 AM
To: RLS Legal Staff
Subject: FW: Instructor Question



Can you help with this question please?



Thank you.



From:
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 11:13 AM
To: CHLinstructors
Subject: Instructor Question



This was brought up in my class over this past weekend.

It is illegal to carry a gun into a typical stand alone federal post office. What happens in the country type stores, where you will have a convenience store and a post office sharing a location?
With no 30.06 posted sign.

thanks

[BrianSW99]

That would only apply if the post office inside the store is being operated by the USPS. Every one I've seen is a contracted unit which is not a federal facility. Usually the sign will say "Contract unit" on it. Not to say there are not any actual post office operating inside another business, but I've just never seen one.

Brian

[wharvey]

This is an interesting question and the ramifications could be carried to an extreme. Many stores, at least in some states - for instance Krogers in Indiana, sell stamps. Does HEB? That kind of makes them a post office. I could see the argument applied to them also.

If memory serves, when Texas just passed its concealed carry law back in the 90's it was also illegal to carry in banks. I seem to remember similar questions concerning carrying in stores that had a bank branch located inside. Was it just the bank, or the whole store that was off limits. Moved out of state before I heard a resolution to that.

Frankly, unless they display the famous federal sign that says it is illegal to possess a weapon unless you are hunting, fishing, or other legal activity, I'd think you wouldn't have a problem. Might not want to do postal business just because the feds seem to have a problem following their own rules.

I think the real answer might be in the various shipping stores that can ship items by UPS, Fedex, USPS and other shipping means. Are they off limits? Unless the place is federal property I don't see how it could be off limits, but there seems to be little that the feds do that makes sense.

It really would be nice to get a definitive answer from a reliable source.

[BrianSW99]

If memory serves, when Texas just passed its concealed carry law back in the 90's it was also illegal to carry in banks. I seem to remember similar questions concerning carrying in stores that had a bank branch located inside. Was it just the bank, or the whole store that was off limits. Moved out of state before I heard a resolution to that.

Banks have never been statutorily off limits in Texas. The rule is simple. Federal property = off limits. The UPS Store, gas station, hardware store, etc that provides some postal services or sells stamps is not federal property.

Brian