hirundo82 wrote:The Annoyed Man wrote:hirundo82 wrote:mamabearCali wrote:Gingrich/Rice Gingrich/Santorum----works for me. Let me know where to get the bumper sticker at.
Either of those tickets would guarantee Obama a second term. I, and I expect many other independents, would sit out the election rather than vote for either of those.
You would rather see another Obama term than vote for the one candidate that has even a
chance of beating him? Wow.
Voting for the lesser of two evils makes me feel dirty, and it lends legitimacy to a candidate I don't actually support. I voted third party in 2008, and if the Republicans don't nominate someone I can stand I'll do so again or not vote at all.
FWIW, I'm close to swearing off elections completely (at least federal) for the same reason--participation implies support of a system which I'm becoming convinced is completely out of control. Politicians have gamed the system to their advantage so much that we have a virtually permanent political overclass, where which party is in power makes virtually no difference--the system exists only to perpetuate itself.
You say that the system lacks legitimacy basically because it is broken and doesn't produce results that ideologically pure enough for your satisfaction. I have two reactions to that:
1) To
not vote is to abdicate your responsibilities of citizenship. You may not like that, but it is truth. The system is broken exactly because people don't participate in it, and they haven't for years. When elections in what is still arguably the most free nation on the planet produce turnouts of less than 50% of all eligible voters, that is as shameful as it gets. Not voting as a protest is just as irresponsible as not voting out of apathy. Both have the net effect of contributing to breaking the system further.
2) Life is not squeaky clean, no matter how much we want it to be that way. When you have cancer and you're offered a choice of chemotherapy or radiation therapy, both suck, but the situation demands a response. You can opt out if you want, but that's an irresponsible choice if you have a family to support. We have a nation in need of repair. It is a hard, boots on the ground reality that there are currently only two parties that have a snowball's chance of getting their candidate elected. Supporting the third party's candidate is just as bad as opting out. Worse yet, you have one party which is the absolute bastion of leftist politics. You have the other party that is a muddle of everything from country club republican lite to rock-ribbed hard core conservatives. The democrats have more people registered. The republicans turn out to vote in higher percentages. That is the only reason that elections are even marginally close. Conservatives who opt out of voting because they cannot bring themselves to hold their noses and vote republican have the effect of helping to throw the election to the democrat candidate. Conservatives who desert the republican party to vote third party because they cannot bring themselves to hold their noses and vote republican have the effect of helping to throw the election to the democrat candidate.
If you can't do that—hold your nose and vote republican in this election cycle—then the reality of it is that makes you OK with another 4 years of Obama. Now, if you're OK with that, then just say it. If you're
not OK with that, then don't be politically naive, and don't live in denial. Hold your nose and vote for the "lesser of the two evils."
BTW, I remember a poll about 6 or 8 months ago that showed something like 75% of independents who voted for Obama would NOT voted for him again. Now, things can shift over time, but Obama has not done a single thing to engender confidence among among
liberals and democrats, let alone independents. Watch this recent video of Obama head cheerleader Chris Matthews:
[youtube]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pB4b11_LREA[/youtube]
Obama is in deep kim-chee. His presidency is in the toilet. He
can be beaten by a candidate who offers a
clear alternative to his presidency. Romney is not that man. Romneycare, by the white house's own admission, was the pattern on which Obamacare was modeled. Of
course the liberal media treat Romney with kid gloves. They
want him to be the party's candidate because A) they know that he does not present a clear enough distinction from Obama; B) because his candidacy will legitimize Obamacare....no
matter what Romney says about it in the republican debates; and C) if Romney were to win, he is a republican that the liberal media could give a honeymoon to. For about two weeks.
Personally, despite Gingrich's alleged "baggage," I think he's a good candidate. But here's the deal....if Romney wins the republican nomination, I will hold my nose and vote for him, because even a country club republican like Romney would be a better president than Obama. Newt Gingrich said so.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
#TINVOWOOT
the fix is "trying to be in" but there is still, I believe, some legitimacy left in the process to eke out who the people want "overall".
