B.O.W.I.E. Club - EDCing of an Illegal Knife.

[RPB]

I see knives exceeding 5.5" being worn around here, but there's like 7 lakes and lots of deer leases ... so most are carrying "legally" a fillet knife or hunting knife, except that a "side trip" isn't for a purpose normally performed in that sport (or however it reads) I also carry fishing rods everywhere I go ... but the long fillet knife stays in tackle bag in the trunk, not on my belt.

I also understand the rationale/legal reasoning used in the OP and my opinion is pretty much in agreement BUT two words come to mind "Test case" and another two words too "potentially expensive" in time and money.

Florida's "Concealed WEAPONS permit" sort of fixes this.... so a person there could carry say, brass knuckles etc perhaps...

That's why I don't buy a badge ... they all are for Florida, not Texas

(yeah that's why )

That might be an angle legislatively changing it to Concealed Weapons, in Texas so licensees could legally carry "less than lethal" or less than a firearm" legally without having to test an exception/exemption/non-applicability clause. I mean if the State trusts them to carry a firearm, why not knuckles/6" knife, throwing stars, LARGE pepperspray etc?

[matefrio]

I doubt there will ever be a test case. It's highly unlikely a district attorney would ever prosecute under that law as there is a clear exemption.

I will say I could be asked to leave the store, it is private property and they can do that.

How different is what I'm doing and grabbing one of those kitchen knifes or knives in the sporting section and putting it in my basket?

Target and Walmart offered illegal knives for sale an had samples out as well.

[The Annoyed Man]

matefrio, I'm surprised nobody has addressed the following yet....

I noticed in one of your pictures at the top of this thread that your knife's location on your belt puts it pretty much on top of your IWB pistol. Are you not worried that the knife might interfere with a smooth, fast draw? I admit that the whole "big 'noife'" thing isn't my style, so this would not likely be an issue for me, but IF I were to carry one like yours, I would likely carry it on my off-side just to be sure that it did not interfere with presenting my pistol, should it come to that. Since I'm a lefty, that would mean that I'd carry the knife on my right side.

Your thoughts?

[matefrio]

matefrio, I'm surprised nobody has addressed the following yet....

I noticed in one of your pictures at the top of this thread that your knife's location on your belt puts it pretty much on top of your IWB pistol. Are you not worried that the knife might interfere with a smooth, fast draw? I admit that the whole "big 'noife'" thing isn't my style, so this would not likely be an issue for me, but IF I were to carry one like yours, I would likely carry it on my off-side just to be sure that it did not interfere with presenting my pistol, should it come to that. Since I'm a lefty, that would mean that I'd carry the knife on my right side.

Your thoughts?

My gun sits at 3:00 and the knife is at 4:30ish. I did test this out and the knife actually helps hold the pants down and the shirt out of the way as the gun comes out.

Another thing is retention. I feel more comfortable with the knife on my strong side if an idiot makes a grab for it.

[The Annoyed Man]

matefrio, I'm surprised nobody has addressed the following yet....

I noticed in one of your pictures at the top of this thread that your knife's location on your belt puts it pretty much on top of your IWB pistol. Are you not worried that the knife might interfere with a smooth, fast draw? I admit that the whole "big 'noife'" thing isn't my style, so this would not likely be an issue for me, but IF I were to carry one like yours, I would likely carry it on my off-side just to be sure that it did not interfere with presenting my pistol, should it come to that. Since I'm a lefty, that would mean that I'd carry the knife on my right side.

Your thoughts?

My gun sits at 3:00 and the knife is at 4:30ish. I did test this out and the knife actually helps hold the pants down and the shirt out of the way as the gun comes out.

Another thing is retention. I feel more comfortable with the knife on my strong side if an idiot makes a grab for it.

Thanks for answering so quickly. One last question.... 2 part question.....( ) 1) you've obviously invested some serious money in both the knife and its scabbard, is carrying a BIG knife like that as much a "fashion statement" as anything else; and 2) are you trained in the art of knife fighting?

I carry a knife myself, a largish folding CRKT of the "tactical" variety, but I carry it in the normal manner, clipped into a pocket. I suppose I would use it as a last resort in self defense, but I carry it primarily to tactically clean my fingernails or open an envelope. But it strikes me that, while my knife is certainly a "deadly weapon," my .45 is deadly too, and from significantly greater distances. That is why I would never personally carry a knife as a primary SD weapon unless there were no other alternative legally available to me. I'm too old and rickety, and if an assailant gets within "knife distance" of me, I've likely already lost the fight.

[matefrio]

matefrio, I'm surprised nobody has addressed the following yet....

I noticed in one of your pictures at the top of this thread that your knife's location on your belt puts it pretty much on top of your IWB pistol. Are you not worried that the knife might interfere with a smooth, fast draw? I admit that the whole "big 'noife'" thing isn't my style, so this would not likely be an issue for me, but IF I were to carry one like yours, I would likely carry it on my off-side just to be sure that it did not interfere with presenting my pistol, should it come to that. Since I'm a lefty, that would mean that I'd carry the knife on my right side.

Your thoughts?

My gun sits at 3:00 and the knife is at 4:30ish. I did test this out and the knife actually helps hold the pants down and the shirt out of the way as the gun comes out.

Another thing is retention. I feel more comfortable with the knife on my strong side if an idiot makes a grab for it.

Thanks for answering so quickly. One last question.... 2 part question.....( ) 1) you've obviously invested some serious money in both the knife and its scabbard, is carrying a BIG knife like that as much a "fashion statement" as anything else; and 2) are you trained in the art of knife fighting?

I carry a knife myself, a largish folding CRKT of the "tactical" variety, but I carry it in the normal manner, clipped into a pocket. I suppose I would use it as a last resort in self defense, but I carry it primarily to tactically clean my fingernails or open an envelope. But it strikes me that, while my knife is certainly a "deadly weapon," my .45 is deadly too, and from significantly greater distances. That is why I would never personally carry a knife as a primary SD weapon unless there were no other alternative legally available to me. I'm too old and rickety, and if an assailant gets within "knife distance" of me, I've likely already lost the fight.

I've carried a pocket knife almost every day for over 30 years though middle school and high school. I honestly feel out of sorts when I don't have one in my pocket.

Closest I've come to using one in self defense was 16 when I drew a Buck 110 in answer to a 20 year old drunk who was treating me and my party with a knife, that seemed to resolve the issue as he got mad, hit a wall and, I think, braking his a fist and left. No special ninja skills here though.

My normal EDC is an Emmerson full sized Commander. Knife fights are crazy situations though.

Honestly I just got tired of all the hand wringing, the concern, and utter bull of the whole debate on if this is legal or not.

That and I can't comfortably sit back and write about things in theory for so long without getting an itch to try things out in the real world.

I agree this one is a bit big. It was an impulse purchase but as it arrived first yesterday I decided to go with it. I have another coming soon I plan to carry.

Blade length: 6 inch ApproxHandle length: 4 1/2 inch Approx Walnut wood handle. Over 300 layers of 15n25 and 1095 treated to 58 hrc on rockwell scale test

[gigag04]

I doubt there will ever be a test case. It's highly unlikely a district attorney would ever prosecute under that law as there is a clear exemption.

This makes me laugh. I suggest keeping a different lawyer.

I remember a certain DA in a certain large texas county that would prosecute UCW in a vehicle, regardless of legislative intent or clear exemptions.

[matefrio]

I doubt there will ever be a test case. It's highly unlikely a district attorney would ever prosecute under that law as there is a clear exemption.

This makes me laugh. I suggest keeping a different lawyer.

I remember a certain DA in a certain large texas county that would prosecute UCW in a vehicle, regardless of legislative intent or clear exemptions.

So, everyone in Texas got scared and stopped UCWing in their vehicles and folks here advised the everyone not to carry or they may get prosecuted right?

[MoJo]

I doubt there will ever be a test case. It's highly unlikely a district attorney would ever prosecute under that law as there is a clear exemption.

This makes me laugh. I suggest keeping a different lawyer.

I remember a certain DA in a certain large texas county that would prosecute UCW in a vehicle, regardless of legislative intent or clear exemptions.

So, everyone in Texas got scared and stopped UCWing in their vehicles and folks here advised the everyone not to carry or they may get prosecuted right?

No, the voters in that county elected a new DA that guy was wrong in his position. This issue is such a gray area that in court it could go either way. I'm not going to be the test case. Like TAM I'm too old and rickedy to go knife fightin'.

[gigag04]

I doubt there will ever be a test case. It's highly unlikely a district attorney would ever prosecute under that law as there is a clear exemption.

This makes me laugh. I suggest keeping a different lawyer.

I remember a certain DA in a certain large texas county that would prosecute UCW in a vehicle, regardless of legislative intent or clear exemptions.

So, everyone in Texas got scared and stopped UCWing in their vehicles and folks here advised the everyone not to carry or they may get prosecuted right?

Not sure what point you're driving here.

Mine was to point out the rather baseless claim of "highly unlikely" when referring to what a DA will take. And really, since the County Attorney's office in the county handles misdemeanors, that is who you should worry yourself with. To say prosecution is "highly unlikely" without stating what authority you have to make such a claim, just falls flat, as you can see here.

[bayouhazard]

Ultimately it's his choice isn't it?

If he's prosecuted the naysayers can say, "I told you so.". Until then, he's putting his money where is mouth is. That's something I can respect.

[Afff_667]

Honestly I just got tired of all the hand wringing, the concern, and utter bull of the whole debate on if this is legal or not.

I don't think you've come to anything remotely definitive in this regard. My thoughts are simply that you were lucky to avoid any legal entanglements. It's highly unlikely that you'd win a discussion with an LEO in the Walmart/Target/AYCE buffet place about whether the law "says" what you interpret it to say.

On a side note, why draw attention to yourself? Carrying a blade that big certainly doesn't help you to be "gray" and could actually entice a hooligan to see if you have an Austrailian accent. Also, it looks silly...and I'd hate for such silliness to bleed over onto the rest of us who carry concealed just because you want to prove a point.

[matefrio]

vince.ryan@cao.hctx.net
Subject: Opinion Requested - Texas State Laws


The Honorable Vince Ryan
Harris County Attorney
10 19 Congress, 15th Floor
Houston, Texas 77002


Dear Mr. Ryan,

As a resident of Harris county and on behalf of several Concealed Handgun License holders I wish to inquire your opinion of the following TX CHL and weapon laws.

I have highlighted the law with the reference to the full law in the link below.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In your opinion, is it lawful therefore to carry a illegal knife, or club when lawfully and legally carrying a concealed handgun under the concealed handgun license?


Thank you,

[MasterOfNone]

I'm more afraid of the guy taking pictures in the public men's room than the knife.
As for as the law on this, I agree with the OP. It clearly states that if you are carrying a CHL and an appropriate gun, then 46.02 does not apply, leaving no law prohibiting you from carrying the knife. That is the LETTER of the law.
So let's look at the INTENT of the law. Was the intent to only exclude the part of 46.02 that applies to handguns, or was it to exclude all of 46.02? I think the answer is found in the later parts of 46.15:

The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply...

The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply...

The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply...

The provisions of Sections 46.02 and 46.03 prohibiting the possession or carrying of a club do not apply...

The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun do not apply...

In these sections, it is demonstrated that when the intent is to only exclude a certain part of 46.02, it is stated that only such part does not apply. This supports the argument that the intent of 46.15(b) is to exclude all of 46.02.

[mreavis]

I think the subsections exempting separate weapon carriers from 46.02 is a very good point. And I also would love for this to be a right of ours. Has anyone actually received a response from a lawyer in this field or the DA? The main thing that gets me is, if this is true, and all variables considered; this would mean while carrying your handgun and CHL, you could legally carry a sword on your back walking down the street. Not so sure about their intentions towards that. Now obviously you would be stopped for disturbing the peace or whatever. However, putting that aside. I'm still unsure if they intended to legalize (on a weapon carrying level) CHL holders wielding swords in public. And if that was not an intended right, I wouldn't think the other parts were either.

Very interesting though. I might try and e-mail the DA's office and start the wait for my possible reply.