Remington 700 safety problems: CNBC, 10/20/10, 8PM Central.

[drjoker]

Aren't you supposed to keep it pointed in a safe direction until you fire it? The only safety flaw in my mind would be a gun not being drop safe that's meant to be carried loaded such as a pistol. As I understand it, the issue was that the gun could go off if you pull the trigger with the safety on, then it fires when you're disengaging the safety. When you're disengaging the safety, you're about to shoot anyways, so what's the problem? It's not like the gun went off by itself when dropped accidentally.

I think Rem rifles are fine. Shot one in competition in high school and never had any problems with it.

[Beiruty]

I don't know if it is the same, however, on my tikka T3 i cannot unload while the saftey is on. Rgardless of the safefty rules, if the rifile disharge while switching the safety, the rifle is defective, Period.

[TLE2]

Just tried it on my 700 (safety on, pull trigger, safety off) and it didn't fire until the trigger was pulled, safety off. It has the factory trigger.

I will be even more wary than usual.

[rthillusa]

Does anyone know if this is still an on-going issue with recently manufactured 700s? I saw the piece Sunday while I was out in west Texas and there were a lot of people talking while the tape played. I believe there was some mention of a trigger mechanism redesign, but nobody seemed to be clear on whether or not the issue only applied to older models or to current models as well.

For what its worth, I was in the room with a group of hunters representing a combined total of well over a hundred years of shooting 700s and none of them had ever even heard of the issue. No one seemed to know quite what to make of the story.

Just last week I bought a new 770 on a compact stock for my grand-kids to learn to hunt with. Supposedly its the same trigger mechanism as the 700. I'm not sure what to make of the issue either. I've promised the grandkid's moms there will be no firearm related incidents on my watch and I need to make sure what they carry is safe, just not sure how to go about it now.

Sure seems to be a lot of diverse viewpoints. Hard to sort out facts from opinions.

[The Annoyed Man]

Does anyone know if this is still an on-going issue with recently manufactured 700s? I saw the piece Sunday while I was out in west Texas and there were a lot of people talking while the tape played. I believe there was some mention of a trigger mechanism redesign, but nobody seemed to be clear on whether or not the issue only applied to older models or to current models as well.

For what its worth, I was in the room with a group of hunters representing a combined total of well over a hundred years of shooting 700s and none of them had ever even heard of the issue. No one seemed to know quite what to make of the story.

Just last week I bought a new 770 on a compact stock for my grand-kids to learn to hunt with. Supposedly its the same trigger mechanism as the 700. I'm not sure what to make of the issue either. I've promised the grandkid's moms there will be no firearm related incidents on my watch and I need to make sure what they carry is safe, just not sure how to go about it now.

Sure seems to be a lot of diverse viewpoints. Hard to sort out facts from opinions.

It NEVER was an ongoing problem. It is a manufactured story, cobbled together by CNBC, to slam a gun manufacturer. There is no real substance to it.

Here is Remington's response the the CNBC story. They completely dismantle all of CNBC's accusations, including where Remington's depositions of CNBC's own expert witness show that CNBC's conclusions were poppycock and that they took their own expert witness out of context. They are, like all liberal media, simply liars of the nth water. Do not trust them:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=2YFIwoZsWHk[/youtube]

I own and love a very nice Remington 700 VSF. It is a wonderfully accurate, safe, and reliable rifle; and I would gladly recommend a model 700 to anyone looking for a high quality bolt rifle.

[boba]

I saw part of the show during the Thanksgiving weekend and was at the blame game. Maybe there is a design flaw that only affects a small percentage of the guns. I don't know for sure, but I do know the people who shot their children violated the #1 NRA gun safety rule.

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

[Outbreaker]

Every gun that I have seen do this (3 mine included) were due to the stock trigger being adjusted. If the you do not like the stock trigger replace it with a match trigger like a Jewel.

[Bennies]

Might be a little of a thread drift but I was looking at getting a 700. After a little research i think this CNBC story is just typical media hype so I am going to move forward with my shopping. Just out of curiosity, I know that a heavy barrel will increase accuracy but do you think just buying a plain old Remington 700 would be accurate enough for shooting hogs and coyotes with out having to dump a ton of money into the gun? I am talking just the basic gun with a synthetic stock and nothing fancy for shooting at 200 yards maybe 300 at the most. I do not have a bunch of money to spend. just wondering...thanks

[rthillusa]

I'd say a Rem 700 is more than adequate. That's not based just on my experience, but based on the experience of several folks I hunt with. One used to guide big money elk hunters in New Mexico, even did a few commercial video shoots for Real Tree. He can afford any gun he wants, and has most of them, but usually carries a 700. The others grew up hunting, literally, not figuratively, and also usually are carrying a 700.

It was on their recommendation I bought the 770 for my grand kids. We were all pretty surprised at the CNBC video and they had never heard of that issue. I think the consensus at the end of the day was they all either had trigger jobs, or something else was going on. The rebuttal by Remington was pretty convincing as well.

I learned gun safety as a kid with a .22 that had a hair trigger and would go off for almost any reason when cocked, including flipping the safety off or a slight bump. A couple of experiences with that thing and you are a true believer. After I grew up, and inherited the gun from my dad, I took it to a gunsmith and had it fixed.

You didn't ask, but the 770 packaged with a scope is very reasonably priced and so far as I can tell, is plenty good for 200-300 yards. Its definitely made to sell at a certain price point and your Sako toting friends will hoot, but it shoots good enough groups for that range.

[rthillusa]

I'm sorry, I can't resist posting this. Here is a clip from USA Today about the content of the CNBC article.

They include the death in 2000 of nine-year-old Gus Barber of Manhattan, Montana, who was killed on a family hunting trip when his mother's Remington 700 went off as she was unloading it. Barbara Barber has said she is certain her hand was nowhere near the trigger. Her husband Rich Barber, who witnessed the accident, learned within days about similar reported incidents involving the 700.

Why in God's name would you have a rifle pointed at your son, or anywhere near anyone, when you are unloading it - why -why -why

I feel her pain, and the need to blame the gun, the position of the sun in the sky, the melting polar ice caps, anything but admit that due to my carelessness my son is dead. But what was she thinking about when she was unloading a gun? You never point an UNLOADED gun at anyone.

I've tried to explain to Scouts and my kids and grand-kids that most people are killed with an unloaded gun - most get it, but a few never will.

end of rant -

[Bennies]

I'd say a Rem 700 is more than adequate. That's not based just on my experience, but based on the experience of several folks I hunt with. One used to guide big money elk hunters in New Mexico, even did a few commercial video shoots for Real Tree. He can afford any gun he wants, and has most of them, but usually carries a 700. The others grew up hunting, literally, not figuratively, and also usually are carrying a 700.

It was on their recommendation I bought the 770 for my grand kids. We were all pretty surprised at the CNBC video and they had never heard of that issue. I think the consensus at the end of the day was they all either had trigger jobs, or something else was going on. The rebuttal by Remington was pretty convincing as well.

I learned gun safety as a kid with a .22 that had a hair trigger and would go off for almost any reason when cocked, including flipping the safety off or a slight bump. A couple of experiences with that thing and you are a true believer. After I grew up, and inherited the gun from my dad, I took it to a gunsmith and had it fixed.

You didn't ask, but the 770 packaged with a scope is very reasonably priced and so far as I can tell, is plenty good for 200-300 yards. Its definitely made to sell at a certain price point and your Sako toting friends will hoot, but it shoots good enough groups for that range.

Thanks for the input. I went and checked out the 700 and 770 a little while ago. I think I am going to go with the 700 in a 30.06. Just seemed a little more solid and I can afford the price difference which was not too bad. I already have a scope so I am good to go in that area.

[92f-fan]

I saw it on TV a few weeks ago ..

I've also seen the Remington response

Since each side is aggressively presenting ONLY facts that support their contention

Like most things I think the reality is somewhere in the middle between the 2...

[Heartland Patriot]

I know this thread is "ancient" but since there was the recent posting of another thread about the video at the heart of it, I figured I would add my own two cents worth. I did a search for "Remington Model 700 trigger"...and the FIRST thing that came up, and indeed several of the items on that page, were instructions on how to ADJUST the trigger. You know, ALMOST ANYONE with the slightest mechanical skill can work on/replace an AK's trigger parts...but the Model 700 trigger looks like its too complicated for novices to just be monkeying around with...if you don't know what you are doing, get a professional to do the work and stop trying to save a buck or two...someone's life might depend on it.

[JSThane]

Seeing as this thread has been Zombie-Fied (and that I hadn't heard of this issue, nor seen the thread, before this), I went ahead and checked my own 700, a .30-06 in the left-hand configuration. I've not touched the trigger in the slightest; however, it was used when I got it, so may have been "adjusted." I'm "guesstimating" the trigger pull around 6 to 7 pounds, crisp, with no creep to let you know it's about to fire. It's actually quite nice for a presumed "factory" trigger.

I cannot get this rifle to drop the firing pin in any way, shape, manner, or form, unless the safety is off, and I pull the trigger. Engaging safety, pulling the trigger, pounding the butt of the rifle on things, yanking on the trigger again, fiddling with the bolt handle, more trigger pulling, then disengage the safety... nada. The little "click" of the firing pin landing on an empty chamber is strangely absent, and it stubbornly refuses to "go off." More slamming the rifle butt, fiddling with the bolt handle, etc, except with the safety off, has the same result - until I pull the trigger, and the rifle obediently clicks when commanded.

I've gotten other guns to go off when they shouldn't have, but I had farted around with their internals prior to that. Attention to detail and a careful hand fixed my Bubba Smith Gun Smith errors. I've never had one go off that hadn't been messed-with, and I can't make the 700 misbehave unless I mess with its internal parts. To my way of thinking, this is a non-issue. Even if it's happened once or twice, well... how many Glocks have blown up with factory ammo? And yet how many of us own Glocks? (I've had four, two currently). It's an undeserving slam at a quality manufacturer, and a slam with an ulterior purpose.

But at least it got us all to go check our own 700s, right?