Concealed Carry in State Parks?

[rmr1923]

My wife and I live in west Houston and like to go jogging and bicycling in George Bush Park. We've heard from other people that they've seen feral hogs in the park, a while back I was out for a jog and found myself up a tree when I came alongside one on the cycling/jogging trail that took a "liking" to me. The hog lost interest after a few minutes and after he disappeared into the brush I finished my jog with no problems. I've also seen a handful here and there while on my bike, but wasn't as concerned given their distance from me and the fact that I wasn't on foot.

We typically go jogging through Terry Hershey Park (no hog problem there that I'm aware of), but still ride our bikes through GB, but my question is what are the laws concerning a CHL holder in a park such as this? I'm not overly concerned about it because it's a very heavily trafficked area and I don't ever remember hearing of anyone being attacked or injured, but it got me to wondering if I would be legally justified in (a) carrying concealed in the park and (b) discharging said handgun in self defense if for some reason I found myself "up a tree" again.

I know the simple solution would be to avoid the park altogether, but I guess that's beside the point of my question. I prefer to not let other people (or animals) dictate what I do for a hobby and where I can do it.

[rmr1923]

As a side note, I've read elsewhere that some TDWP parks are on land that is leased from USACE, which would prohibit the possession of a weapon in the park. There's a shooting range within the borders of George Bush Park, so I don't believe it's on USACE property.

[Jumping Frog]

Sounds like it is public, non-federal, property. I wouldn't worry for a heartbeat about carrying there, and if a feral pig was coming after me I wouldn't hesitate for a millisecond to shoot it. They can be nasty critters.

[Liberty]

Rick Perry got away with it under a simular situation. All the same climbing a tree would be my first choice.

[A-R]

Rick Perry got away with it under a simular situation. All the same climbing a tree would be my first choice.

Yeah I'm not sure a lil' Elsie Pea dispatches a hog as easily as a coyote.

[RPB]

As a side note, I've read elsewhere that some TDWP parks are on land that is leased from USACE, which would prohibit the possession of a weapon in the park. There's a shooting range within the borders of George Bush Park, so I don't believe it's on USACE property.

Lots of USACE properties have hunting and/or shooting ranges and you may carry your disassembled and unloaded gun to them.

Sounds like it is public, non-federal, property. I wouldn't worry for a heartbeat about carrying there, and if a feral pig was coming after me I wouldn't hesitate for a millisecond to shoot it. They can be nasty critters.

Would be better to check ...

http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/Addicks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ooops
George Bush Park. is not a State Park, it is a US ARMY CORPS of Engineers Park operated by Harris County
Harris County Precinct 3

So, it's a county park on Army land ... just like Georgetown's city and County parks on Lake Georgetown where firearms are prohibited and Texas/State Licenses are not honored ...

Public Reminders
Addicks and Barker Reservoirs are governed by federal law (Title 36, CHAPTER III, PART 327). These are rules and regulations that govern public use of water resource development projects administered by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Chief of Engineers. The following rules cited below are partial, but specifically apply to users of this project (Addicks and Barker Reservoirs). A brochure containing the complete list of rules and regulations may be obtained from the Addicks Project Office (281-497-0740).
327.2 The operation of any vehicle off established roadways is prohibited.
327.8 Hunting is prohibited.
327.13 Possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, and explosives of any kind is prohibited.
327.9 Disposal (garbage, trash, rubbish, litter or waste material) is prohibited.
327.14 Destruction, injury, defacement, or removal of public property, including natural features, historical, and archeological features, and vegetation is prohibited.
327.7 Camping is prohibited.
327.10 Fires are permitted, only if they are situated in developed campsite or picnic site areas and must be confined to grills and fireplaces.
A complete list of rules is available at the Addicks Field Office, 281-497-0740

[RPB]

what are the laws concerning a CHL holder in a park such as this?

See:
http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/employ ... cfm?Id=789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
memo which in part lists/links to

36 C.F.R. § 327.13 remains in full force and effect. It will continue to prohibit loaded concealed weapons on Corps properties regardless of the new law and notwithstanding any contrary provisions of State law. It remains Corps policy that we will not honor State-issued concealed weapon permits on our facilities

Title 36 regulations (36 C.F.R., Chapter III, Part 327, Rules and Regulations Governing Public Use of COE Water Resources Development Projects). 36 C.F.R. § 327.13(a) prohibits the possession of loaded firearms or ammunition on lands and waters administered by the Corps unless one of the exceptions in 36 C.F.R. § 327.13(a)(1)-(4) applies. The full text of 36 C.F.R. can be viewed on the NRM Gateway at: http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/employ ... itle36.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

now that memo and portion of the code "SEEMS" to contradict the below portion, but it doesn't because of the "otherwise provided"

327.26 State and local laws.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part or by Federal law or regulation, state and local laws and ordinances shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes, but is not limited to, state and local laws and ordinances governing:
(1) Operation and use of motor vehicles, vessels, and aircraft;
(2) Hunting, fishing and trapping;
(3) Use or possession of firearms or other weapons;
(4) Civil disobedience and criminal acts;
(5) Littering, sanitation and pollution; and
(6) Alcohol or other controlled substances.
(b) These state and local laws and ordinances are enforced by those state and local enforcement agencies established and authorized for that purpose.

Also , regarding Motorist Protection Act

weapon in your vehicle on Corps property?

nope, not allowed (I still have e-mails from USACE personnel)

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=35664&p=422032&hil ... mo#p422032" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34417&p=405278&hili ... mo#p405278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, in a nutshell, CHLs are not honored,... though they should be, .... except the head guys say no ... and the consensus is that they are currently prohibited and the Congress may change that soon with the House/Senate bills for consistent treatment on public lands act or whatever it's called , but for the next year I think the House de-funded enforcement ... so a situation arises where it may (or may not) be illegal to carry a tool for self defense and defending yourself against wild boar etc,, but theoretically they can't enforce it/prosecute until funded next year or something


I"m not a lawyer, and I do not go to USACE parks/properties or support them in any way other than them using my Federal Tax confiscations and my State fees TPWD gets to stock their lakes and ... otherwise take my money for land I can't use.

[rmr1923]

thanks everyone for the replies

i guess i was looking in the wrong places, thanks again for the help. guess i'll just stick to jogging elsewhere, and keep riding my bike at GB park (if i can't get away from the hog on my bike, at least i hope i can get to the nearest tree). i've come across some before that acted like they didn't even see people on the trails, but this one time he decided i'd make for a good breakfast i guess.

[fishman]

If you see a pig, don't count on riding faster than they can run, you'll lose. The good news is they will probably run the other way when they see you. But you never know...

[Skiprr]

About 30 square miles of park land in west Houston is USACOE, and includes George Bush, Cullen, and Bear Creek Parks. See this post from last June: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45584&p=557649#p557649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

[kjolly]

If there is a tree handy and a feral is charging go for the tree first even if you are carrying. These things are mean have no natural predators and can move fast. The reason for my answer is if you have anything less potent than a .357 pigs can be tough to put down with one shot and a moving pig is a tough target. Standing your ground can get you hurt.

[Rex B]

the good news is that pigs typically give you one charge then vamoose, according to an earlier thread here.
I guess if you can dodge once you should be good.

[rmr1923]

the good news is that pigs typically give you one charge then vamoose, according to an earlier thread here.
I guess if you can dodge once you should be good.

That's exactly what happened that prompted me to start this thread, I was headed for the tree before he charged, but after a short time he just disappeared into the brush.

[rmr1923]

If there is a tree handy and a feral is charging go for the tree first even if you are carrying. These things are mean have no natural predators and can move fast. The reason for my answer is if you have anything less potent than a .357 pigs can be tough to put down with one shot and a moving pig is a tough target. Standing your ground can get you hurt.

My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't even think about trying to stand my ground in hopes that I could get off a well aimed shot.

So how fast can the typical feral hog run? I can pedal up to around 30 mph but can't sustain that much longer than a minute or 2.