New York nabs another traveler

[chasfm11]

Bronco78,

You have stated NY's views right. But it isn't the law. If you are traveling through and spend the night in a hotel, you are still traveling. And therefore protected by the Federal law.

NY settles this for low fines because it knows it would lose a challenge. And the people charged pay because they don't want to go through the hassle etc of trial. That doesn't mean NY is acting legally, it isn't.

NJ and the Port Authority police do the same thing. They arrested some travelers who tried to check handguns at Newark Airport. The port authority police control the bridges into NJ so theoretically you could be stopped in the process of getting in. I always figured that an RV with a Texas license plate could be a magnet for gun enforcement.

[RPB]

related article- from historical view
The strange birth of NY’s gun laws
Last Updated: 11:43 PM, January 15, 2012
Posted: 11:15 PM, January 15, 2012

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/op ... ydklC80HYM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[G26ster]

I'm not saying it is the case here, as I have not researched it, but New York City has it's own laws in addition to New York State law. All too often I see the abbreviation NY or just New York used on the forum and elsewhere, without the distinction between City and State. It can lead to much confusion and misinterpretation of the law. Just sayin'

[Jumping Frog]

Here is a blog from Mark Meckler with details on the incident. NY PD will not return his gun back. Should sue the pants of NYC.

http://www.markmeckler.com/nyc-gun-char ... speak-out/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nah, he should keep his mouth shut and thank his lucky stars they dropped the felony charges.

[Jumping Frog]

You have stated NY's views right. But it isn't the law. If you are traveling through and spend the night in a hotel, you are still traveling. And therefore protected by the Federal law.

That is not necessarily correct. The actual statute specifies the means of transporting in a "transporting vehicle". It says nothing about hotels.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit has already ruled that FOPA`s protections only apply while the firearm is not readily accessible to the traveler, and that a firearm is readily accessible during a hotel stay.

If his previous stop was outside of New York where he could legally own the firearm -- Vermont for example -- and he drove to La Guardia to catch the plane, then he would clearly be protected under FOPA Safe Passage. However, if his previous stop was spending the night in New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut where he clearly was not allowed to possess the firearm, the federal protection clearly does not apply.

Here is the actual statute:

18 .U.S.C. § 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

The NRA-ILA also has a good write up on these issues.

[RoyGBiv]

Very interesting Frog... I had not considered that if I woke up in PA and drove to Newark or LGA to catch my flight home to TX I would be protected by FOPA. I always thought of the airport transfer as a "stop".

If you have any links for any test cases that support this, I surely would appreciate it.... I'm occasionally up for pressing my luck.
I'll do some googling too..

ETA: The first link I found is this one.. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/1 ... his-first/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The writer IS a lawyer, but the disclaimer is clear that this is NOT legal advice..

Here are Joe’s FOPA problems: Joe didn’t just pass through Massachusetts, he traveled to Massachusetts, where he stopped without benefit of a Massachusetts license. Then, he removed the guns from his trunk. Say it ain’t so, Joe!

FOPA’s right of interstate safe passage may well have ended when his automobile journey ended in Massachusetts. FOPA did not give Joe the right to transport guns in Massachusetts, only through it from one state to another. There is a big difference. Joe couldn’t claim that his stop was either accidental or instantaneous, either one of which might have helped if he kept his hands off the guns. But no, Joe’s stop was both planned and lengthy. Strike One.

Nothing in FOPA allowed Joe to carry the guns in his hands, period. They had to stay in the trunk. The locked boxes don’t help Joe’s case, since he had the keys. So Joe’s firearms became “readily accessible” when he removed them from his trunk, when FOPA only applies to guns that are not readily accessible. Strike Two.

Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Joe’s FOPA rights ended when he parked his car at Logan Airport and he took possession of the guns when he grabbed them for check-in. Without FOPA’s safe harbor to rely on, Joe was required to comply with Massachusetts law. Massachusetts has its own “peaceable journey” statute, but it’s restrictive. Under Massachusetts law, a person licensed elsewhere can carry an unloaded long gun in a locked trunk “in or through the commonwealth.” Handguns are a different story, though.
.....................

[speedsix]

Here is a blog from Mark Meckler with details on the incident. NY PD will not return his gun back. Should sue the pants of NYC.

http://www.markmeckler.com/nyc-gun-char ... speak-out/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nah, he should keep his mouth shut and thank his lucky stars they dropped the felony charges.

...nope...he shouldn't knuckle, buckle, bow, and scrape...he should use his strong support base to win some justice for us all...tuck and run hasn't worked too well for us in our 2A fight...SOMEONE has to stand up and holler...he might just be our man...kinda like a lady on a bus one day who wouldn't sit in the back...who'd'a thunk it?!!!!

[stroo]

They didn't arrest Meckler in a hotel; they arrested him in the airport as he was trying to declare his gun. He was clearly traveling at that point. Of course, he probably screwed up at that point and said he had carried the gun while he was in NYC.

BTW, all criminal charges against the plaintiff in the 3rd Circuit case were dismissed. He was only seeking the return of his gun and ammunition.

[RoyGBiv]

They didn't arrest Meckler in a hotel; they arrested him in the airport as he was trying to declare his gun. He was clearly traveling at that point. Of course, he probably screwed up at that point and said he had carried the gun while he was in NYC.

BTW, all criminal charges against the plaintiff in the 3rd Circuit case were dismissed. He was only seeking the return of his gun and ammunition.

As I understand it, FOPA only provides "protection" if "traveling" between two places where your posession of the gun is not in violation of any laws. Since his starting point was a NYC hotel, a place where his possession of the weapon was in violation of the law, FOPA does not apply. FOPA seems to me to be "passing through" protection and does not apply if the slightest bit of "hanging around" takes place, including a change of your mode of transportation.

If you at any time take possession of the weapon (even in a locked case to which you have the key) during the travel it seems that you forfeit FOPA.

IMO, IANAL

[chasfm11]

And if you think NY is a problem now......

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/01/17/ ... echnology/

[Lambda Force]

...nope...he shouldn't knuckle, buckle, bow, and scrape...he should use his strong support base to win some justice for us all.

It looks like it's too late. I don't think you can appeal a guilty plea.