51 percent - improperly posted?

[n5wmk]

So this past weekend, a group of friends and I went for a drive to this little hole in the wall place in North Texas, in a tiny little community - maybe 200 population. The hole in the wall place is popular on the weekends. They serve alcohol, and burgers, etc. I was carrying concealed, and looked for any signage as we walked up to the place. Not seeing anything, I went on in, and we all sat down and ordered. About 20 minutes later, as I'm sitting there, looking around, I see the 51 percent signs posted on the *inside* of the place, just to the right side of the entrance door. You would only really see them on your way out of the place, unless as you walked in, you did a 360 degree survey of the place.

I just kept on as normal. I didn't want to get up and go back out to my truck to disarm myself. Someone in our group would have wanted to know why I went out to the truck.

The signs were obviously several years old. I didn't see the store's liquor license - to see if it required the blue or red notification. They may or many not get 51% or their revenue from alcohol. The place has gone through several owners over the past few years, and obviously the signs were put there way before the current owners.

Just wondering your thoughts on this situation. Does "entrance" as stated in the law (copy below) mean the sign should be visible from outside the facility?

Thanks!



NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).

[Keith B]

So this past weekend, a group of friends and I went for a drive to this little hole in the wall place in North Texas, in a tiny little community - maybe 200 population. The hole in the wall place is popular on the weekends. They serve alcohol, and burgers, etc. I was carrying concealed, and looked for any signage as we walked up to the place. Not seeing anything, I went on in, and we all sat down and ordered. About 20 minutes later, as I'm sitting there, looking around, I see the 51 percent signs posted on the *inside* of the place, just to the right side of the entrance door. You would only really see them on your way out of the place, unless as you walked in, you did a 360 degree survey of the place.

I just kept on as normal. I didn't want to get up and go back out to my truck to disarm myself. Someone in our group would have wanted to know why I went out to the truck.

The signs were obviously several years old. I didn't see the store's liquor license - to see if it required the blue or red notification. They may or many not get 51% or their revenue from alcohol. The place has gone through several owners over the past few years, and obviously the signs were put there way before the current owners.

Just wondering your thoughts on this situation. Does "entrance" as stated in the law (copy below) mean the sign should be visible from outside the facility?

Thanks!



NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).

First off, welcome to the forum.

It does not specifically state they must be visible from outside, but does state at the entrance and conspicuous. So, that means you must be able to see it as you enter.

Now, one problem is, that even if they didn't have it posted at the entrance, if the location truly is a 51% establishment, then you were in violation by not getting up and leaving with your weapon once you saw the sign (received notice.) Up until the time you noticed the sign, you had a defense to prosecution as the sign was not seen. After that, your defense went out the window.

If you will tell us the business then we can look it up in the TABC database and see if it really is a 51% location or not.

[bayouhazard]

I get where you're coming from Keith but I don't think the law cares when or if you saw the sign. The sign is either prominently displayed or it isn't.

Claiming you didn't notice the sign might sway a sympathetic DA or jury, but that's not a requirement in the 46.035 51% law or the 30.06 law. The law doesn't seem to make allowances for how observant we are. Or aren't.

[Keith B]

I get where you're coming from Keith but I don't think the law cares when or if you saw the sign. The sign is either prominently displayed or it isn't.

Claiming you didn't notice the sign might sway a sympathetic DA or jury, but that's not a requirement in the 46.035 51% law or the 30.06 law. The law doesn't seem to make allowances for how observant we are. Or aren't.

Actually, it does. See 46.035 (k). Until the person is given effective notice, you have a defense to prosecution. This was added in the 2009 session and helps if you go into a bar that hasn't properly posted.

[LSL]

Had a very similar situation occur recently at the Hermann Sons Home Association, 3393 Hwy 90E 'A' Gonzales, Texas 78629.

I have verified that indeed, it is a Red 51% establishment and submitted to Texas3006.com.

I saw no sign going into the building, but clearly saw the Red 51% on the wall behind the bar.

Sure wish postings were "at all entrances" as required!

[MoJo]

My definition of "prominently displayed" may not be your definition of "prominently displayed" from what the OP said the sign meets MY definition of prominently displayed. It is in plain sight and at the entrance. Until the law is amended to state "prominently displayed on the outside of the establishment" you will have differences of opinion. The only opinion that really matters in this case is the opinion of the judge hearing the case.

[Keith B]

I in the way the OP described, I would say it wouldn't meet mine. I think it should be facing the door so as you enter, inside or outside, that it is clearly visible. I have no real problem with it being placed in an entry foyer or vestibule, Fox and Hound has that, but it is clearly visible and conspicuous as you go into the entrance.

[n5wmk]

First off, welcome to the forum.

If you will tell us the business then we can look it up in the TABC database and see if it really is a 51% location or not.

Thanks for the welcome. Been a member for a while, but this is the first time to post.

The business is
Big Slick's Bar & Grille
106 W. Houston St
Westminster, TX 75485


bigslicks (dot) net for more info.

[Keith B]

Thanks for the welcome. Been a member for a while, but this is the first time to post.

The business is
Big Slick's Bar & Grille
106 W. Houston St
Westminster, TX 75485


bigslicks (dot) net for more info.

It is definitely a 51% location:

License #: N 781864

Trade Name: BIG SLICK'S

Owner: HOGS AND HONEYS PRIVATE CLUB INC.
Location Address: 106 W HOUSTON STREET

WESTMINSTER , TX 75485
UNITED STATES

Mailing Address: 106 W HOUSTON ST
WESTMINSTER , TX 75485
UNITED STATES

County: Collin Orig. Issue Date: 8/9/2011
Status: Current Exp. Date: 8/8/2013
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: Gun Sign: RED

Subordinates: PE
Related To:

So, the thing to do now is call the TABC district office and advise them the sign is not in a conspicuous location as required by code and see if they can get the owner to place it in a more visible spot.

[MoJo]

Thanks for the welcome. Been a member for a while, but this is the first time to post.

The business is
Big Slick's Bar & Grille
106 W. Houston St
Westminster, TX 75485


bigslicks (dot) net for more info.

It is definitely a 51% location:

License #: N 781864

Trade Name: BIG SLICK'S

Owner: HOGS AND HONEYS PRIVATE CLUB INC.
Location Address: 106 W HOUSTON STREET

WESTMINSTER , TX 75485
UNITED STATES

Mailing Address: 106 W HOUSTON ST
WESTMINSTER , TX 75485
UNITED STATES

County: Collin Orig. Issue Date: 8/9/2011
Status: Current Exp. Date: 8/8/2013
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: Gun Sign: RED

Subordinates: PE
Related To:

So, the thing to do now is call the TABC district office and advise them the sign is not in a conspicuous location as required by code and see if they can get the owner to place it in a more visible spot.

[Scott in Houston]

I keep a shortcut to this link on the home screen of my iPhone. You can do that with any smart phone. I routinely check almost everywhere I go that even 'flirts' with the possibility of being 51%. I've found multiple locations who have incorrectly posted 51% or failed to post 51%. TABC has also been very responsive to notes I've sent regarding these places.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/PublicInquiry/Status.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[n5wmk]

I keep a shortcut to this link on the home screen of my iPhone. You can do that with any smart phone. I routinely check almost everywhere I go that even 'flirts' with the possibility of being 51%. I've found multiple locations who have incorrectly posted 51% or failed to post 51%. TABC has also been very responsive to notes I've sent regarding these places.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/PublicInquiry/Status.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great to know about this link. I appreciate all the advice!

Stay safe!

[n5wmk]

So, the thing to do now is call the TABC district office and advise them the sign is not in a conspicuous location as required by code and see if they can get the owner to place it in a more visible spot.

I made that call today, and the very nice TABC lady I spoke with said she's very familiar with that establishment. Because the windows are heavily tinted, the signs would not be visible through the glass if posted the way most businesses would. So Big Slick's does meet the legal requirement per the TABC.

[MasterOfNone]

I generally approach alcohol-selling places expecting to see either a blue or a red sign. If I don't see either, I look harder until I find one.

[Seabear]

I generally approach alcohol-selling places expecting to see either a blue or a red sign. If I don't see either, I look harder until I find one.

If I don't find one easily I go ask for their Permit...question answered.