Minature 51% sign.

[apostate]

A 51% location (aka 'bar') IS automatically off limits, sign or not. And, per TABC statutes, they are required to post a 51% sign properly. HOWEVER, even if they don't you are still breaking the law by entering while carrying. You CAN be arrested and charged. Then, your DEFENSE to argue for charges to be dropped would be 46.035 (k) as you were not aware that it was a 51% location as there was no sign posted. You still would be in violation by carrying in the bar, but could possibly get out of it.

A similar situation exists if a business posts a small sign prohibiting guns, because 30.05(f) is also a defense to prosecution.

[srothstein]

A 51% location (aka 'bar') IS automatically off limits, sign or not. And, per TABC statutes, they are required to post a 51% sign properly. HOWEVER, even if they don't you are still breaking the law by entering while carrying. You CAN be arrested and charged. Then, your DEFENSE to argue for charges to be dropped would be 46.035 (k) as you were not aware that it was a 51% location as there was no sign posted. You still would be in violation by carrying in the bar, but could possibly get out of it. Prior to 46.035 (k) being put in (I believe it was in the 2009 session) there was no defense or argument you could use to try and explain why you didn't know you were in a prohibited location.

THAT is exactly the kind of response I find helpful. Thanks!

I disagree but only on a sort of technicality. The problem is a definition in the law and in common use of what is a 51% place. We usually think of it as a bar, but that is NOT how the law reads. The important clause in the law is that the place is off-limits if it is a 51% location "as determined by TABC". TABC asks each licensee how they will make their money when they apply. The application breaks the amount down by alcohol sales, food sales, and other sales. If alcohol sales are greater than the combination of food and other, then it is a 51% place by TABC determination.

Normally, this means it is a bar, but not always. The most common error is when a place subcontracts out the operation of the alcohol sales in a much larger business, but wants the people to be able to carry alcohol anywhere inside the business. The classic example of this has been discussed and is a bowling alley. The license is written to cover the whole alley so that drinkers may carry their drinks down to where they are bowling. But the contractor is making almost all of his sales from just the alcohol (a little from non-alcoholic drinks like OJ). He is a 51% location and the whole alley will be off-limits, even though the location overall is not a 51% location.

A second common error is a winery tasting room. Since some of the alcohol is consumed on premises and some off, the license gets confused. During the application, TABC does not ask if the alcohol sales will be from on or off premises consumption. The tasting room may make 90% of its sales from off-premises consumption (people buying bottles to take home) but it gets a 51% determination also.

Yes, if it is a 51% location as TABC says, it is automatically off-limits. If the sign is not posted, you have broken the law by carrying there but have a defense or two (the second obvious one is a culpable mental state if it is not an obvious bar). But not all apparent bars are 51% and not all 51% locations are obvious.

[Keith B]

I disagree but only on a sort of technicality. The problem is a definition in the law and in common use of what is a 51% place. We usually think of it as a bar, but that is NOT how the law reads. The important clause in the law is that the place is off-limits if it is a 51% location "as determined by TABC". TABC asks each licensee how they will make their money when they apply. The application breaks the amount down by alcohol sales, food sales, and other sales. If alcohol sales are greater than the combination of food and other, then it is a 51% place by TABC determination.

Normally, this means it is a bar, but not always. The most common error is when a place subcontracts out the operation of the alcohol sales in a much larger business, but wants the people to be able to carry alcohol anywhere inside the business. The classic example of this has been discussed and is a bowling alley. The license is written to cover the whole alley so that drinkers may carry their drinks down to where they are bowling. But the contractor is making almost all of his sales from just the alcohol (a little from non-alcoholic drinks like OJ). He is a 51% location and the whole alley will be off-limits, even though the location overall is not a 51% location.

A second common error is a winery tasting room. Since some of the alcohol is consumed on premises and some off, the license gets confused. During the application, TABC does not ask if the alcohol sales will be from on or off premises consumption. The tasting room may make 90% of its sales from off-premises consumption (people buying bottles to take home) but it gets a 51% determination also.

Yes, if it is a 51% location as TABC says, it is automatically off-limits. If the sign is not posted, you have broken the law by carrying there but have a defense or two (the second obvious one is a culpable mental state if it is not an obvious bar). But not all apparent bars are 51% and not all 51% locations are obvious.

Good point Steve. I failed to identify those types of places in my 51% = bar comparison. Another location that just came up recently and would catch you off guard is the Kimball Art Museum in Fort Worth. It is a 51% location as determined by the TABC as the contractor for alcohol sales apparently makes more money from that that food.