Moderator: carlson1
george wrote:i8godzilla wrote:As one that killed a few gators in my youth, it is all about shot placement. My friends and I once shot one in the head--from about six feet--with a .357 only to have him come alive about 30 minutes later.
The zombie attack has begun!!
I worked in an ER for far too long and saw far too many gunshot patients to believe that a .22 is an effective man-stopper. Sure it will kill you if you are shot enough times in the right places, but it will NOT stop you instantaneously......not even always if you've been shot in the head. It just won't. It is foolishness to believe that it will, and if that is what you are relying on to stop someone else, then you should not be surprised at whatever happens to you next.A giant alligator is like an armored battleship protected by a shield of horny plates on his back, fierce teeth in the bow and propelled by a powerful tail capable of breaking the legs of prey or intruders. The only weakness is a brain the size of a lima bean that limits thinking to eat, bite, fight, mate and start all over.
The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.alligatorfur.com/alligator/alligator.htmI worked in an ER for far too long and saw far too many gunshot patients to believe that a .22 is an effective man-stopper. Sure it will kill you if you are shot enough times in the right places, but it will NOT stop you instantaneously......not even always if you've been shot in the head. It just won't. It is foolishness to believe that it will, and if that is what you are relying on to stop someone else, then you should not be surprised at whatever happens to you next.A giant alligator is like an armored battleship protected by a shield of horny plates on his back, fierce teeth in the bow and propelled by a powerful tail capable of breaking the legs of prey or intruders. The only weakness is a brain the size of a lima bean that limits thinking to eat, bite, fight, mate and start all over.
When you put a .22 through a brain the size of a lima bean, you pretty much crater the entire brain. The human brain is a whole lot bigger than that—even if some people don't always act like it—and death from a .22 to the brain is often a relatively slow death......slow enough that incapacitation (which is what you really want to happen) may not happen fast enough to prevent the BG from hurting you back before he succumbs to having been shot.
Encouraging someone to carry a .22 is fine if that is all they can afford or are capable of carrying or shooting, but it is truly the preference of last resort, and it should never be advocated for primary carry if other alternatives exist.
Also, those folks in the swamp are hunting, not defending themselves. There's a difference.
apostate wrote:You're free to carry a 22 if you like and, if you're Claude Werner or very lucky, that may be enough. That said...
A typical .45 ACP self defense round is 200-230gr at 800-1000fps. Let's call it 500 joules, give or take.drjoker wrote:I mean, let's ignore marketing hype and think for a moment. What's the diference between getting shot with a .45 in chunk of lead and a .22 in chunk of lead?
A typical .22 LR round is 40gr at 1000-1100fps. Let's call it 150 joules to be generous. That's still less than 1/3 the energy.
I suspect the difference in energy (and the size of the hole, to some extent) will result in significant differences in penetration and damage resulting from torso hits. That would seem especially true if the target is wearing a leather jacket, is heavily muscled or fat, or is turned sideways when the bullet hits. These are just my thoughts. You have to work out your own salvation.
Fair enough, get either inside the cranium and it will probably do the job. The trick is getting it in there.
In an emergency, the adrenaline will be flowing so you won't feel the recoil. During practice, you should shoot with those gel padded "biker's gloves". My .380 used to hurt my hand to shoot, but the gloves make it bearable. My s&w airweight .38 special never gave me any recoil problems but if it gives you problems, just shoot wearing a glove on the shooting hand. Cut the trigger finger off the glove. A glove on the left hand helps keep your thumb from hurting when cocking the hammer if you enjoy shooting single action rather than double action. Be proficient in both types of firing.Oldgringo wrote:I had the pleasure of helping our friend in law (DIL's mother) shop for and ultimately buy a handgun in Alabama last week. The good folk at Hoover Tactical emphatically pushed a .22 WMR for a lady's carry gun.
She ultimately bought a S&W snubbie in .38 Spec. but really does not like to shoot it. So, what is better, a handgun that is friendly to shoot or a gun that hurts you to shoot?
Neither. The minimum caliber is .32 on the test but there's no minimum for carry.papajohn1964 wrote:I thought that your carry weapon had to be at least a .38. Or us that just for qualifications?
That is one of the reasons I bought an old S&W Model 49 Bodyguard...all steel...technically not rated for +P but I'd have no problem putting a few through it if required. And that weight does help take up the recoil a bit...I wish I had those "catchers mitt" hands that can comfortably fire "hand cannons" but just didn't get that kind of luck in life.speedsix wrote:...an all-steel snubbie's not bad to shoot...it's these wasp-weight thingys everyone thinks they have to have...carryin's not about being comfortable...it's about being ready...
Heartland Patriot wrote:That is one of the reasons I bought an old S&W Model 49 Bodyguard...all steel...technically not rated for +P but I'd have no problem putting a few through it if required. And that weight does help take up the recoil a bit...I wish I had those "catchers mitt" hands that can comfortably fire "hand cannons" but just didn't get that kind of luck in life.speedsix wrote:...an all-steel snubbie's not bad to shoot...it's these wasp-weight thingys everyone thinks they have to have...carryin's not about being comfortable...it's about being ready...
That is one of the reasons I bought an old Colt Detective Special...all steel...technically rated for +P ammo ... About the same as setting off a firecracker and a stick of dynamite.drjoker wrote:I mean, let's ignore marketing hype and think for a moment. What's the diference between getting shot with a .45 in chunk of lead and a .22 in chunk of lead?
