IDPA Tactical Reloads ?

[Piney]

Greetings--

I've been searching for videos or instructions on performing a successful (ie quick...) tac reload. Reloads from slide lock haven't been troublesome. Its the juggling of the magazines and getting the used one stored (again...successfully...) that's giving me trouble.

Suggestions on where to look ?

[Skiprr]

I've been searching for videos or instructions on performing a successful (ie quick...) tac reload. Reloads from slide lock haven't been troublesome. Its the juggling of the magazines and getting the used one stored (again...successfully...) that's giving me trouble.

Suggestions on where to look ?

Try this short-lived thread: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... load#48366

And, no. I still can't do it even close to that quickly...

[HighVelocity]

That fellow is pretty darn fast. But... He's not wearing concealment and his jeans pocket is pooching out like it's being artificially held open. Neither of those details will fly in IDPA unless you're shooting the classifier where concealment is not required.

I'll bet a donut that I can do it faster. Just pay no mind to the mag with ammo in it lying on the ground at my feet.

[lrb111]

fwiw, those are single stack magzines. Double stacks makes things much more difficult for some folks. Even to the point of having to stash the first one before grabbing the second.

[fm2]

Its the juggling of the magazines and getting the used one stored (again...successfully...) that's giving me trouble

I hear ya.

I disagree with the idea of handling two magazines at the same time for reloading. I use what IDPA now calls reload with retention, RWR, exclusively. I want to keep things robust and simple. 1. rip, 2. stow, 3. grab fresh mag, 4. insert

[Jeremae]

Unless you are going to move immediately after reloading, a reload with retension is easier and faster than a tactical reload.

[Skiprr]

fwiw, those are single stack magzines. Double stacks makes things much more difficult for some folks. Even to the point of having to stash the first one before grabbing the second.

Yep, thick double-stacks and hand size and dexterity can add real complications to a tac reload. I'm a single-stacker, so don't have that problem.

And I kinda agree with fm2, too. I'm just about as quick to the next shot from a reload with retention as with a tac reload. Theoretically, since you can start moving in IDPA as soon as the new magazine is seated, the tac reload should save you some time when running to cover. But I stick my old magazine in my left front pant pocket, and unless I'm walking fairly slowly--not even walking fast--getting the mag in my pocket is more difficult and requires more concentration. So in the end, I could still be slower to the mark than if I'd done a RWR.

My continual problem is that I have trouble keeping my focus on cleanly seating the top of the mag into the well. Like a receiver not watching the football into his hands, I tend to look up at the next target too quickly. A fraction of a second follow-through to make sure the mag is sliding in cleanly would save me some rimmed putts (hows that for mixing my sports metaphors? .

I'm just not very good at it, and only one thing will help: PRACTICE. Which I don't do nearly enough of...

[nitrogen]

Here's a video of me doing a barely decent tactical reload.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2120&hl=en

[Piney]

Another question--Im a bit confuzzled--so a couple of questions

From an IDPA stage description/rule standpoint--

What is the difference between a tactical reload and a reload with retention ?

Both require that the used magazine be kept and not dropped/discarded, correct ?

Am I on track here --?

A tactical reload simply requires that the used, but still charged magazine not be discarded, but kept on one's person.

A reload with retention-- doesn't that mean the same thing ? But--
From what I can tell, a reload with retention requirement prevents one from dropping a used, but still charged magazine, loading with a new one, shooting, then picking up the used mag before continuing on. The catch here I don't understand is the word "continuing". Does "continuing" mean moving on to another part of the stage, or does it mean continuing to fire from that same position ?

[jbirds1210]

From an IDPA stage description/rule standpoint--

What is the difference between a tactical reload and a reload with retention ?

There is no difference according to IDPA rules....either is just fine.
Jason

[Jeremae]

Piney

Any time a stage CALLS for a tac reload, you can do either a true tac reload (switch mags at gun) or a reload with retension (store old mag then get new mag).

You can start moving as soon as the new magazine is seated in the gun.

You can NOT fire gun untill old magazine is stowed away. It MUST be stored either back in Mag carrier, stuffed into belt, or put into a pocket (except for a breast pocket). The pocket can NOT be modified to hold it open to make insertion easier/quicker.

[age_ranger]

Keep in mind if you do a Tac reload you must store your mag before moving. I got a penalty on a stage for that. I had finished my reload and was stowing the mag while advancing on a target. I figured, why not save a few seconds and stow it while I engage a target one handed?? Great John Waybe move and I shot zeroes, but didn't know about the penalty for not stowing the mag. Lesson learned.

For a tac reload, I grab a fresh mag, then eject the old and place it between the middle two fingers on the hand I grabbed my mag with and strip it out. Then, move it over while the same hand inserts the fresh mag and stow the ejected one immediately after. It actually goes smoother than it sounds.

[HighVelocity]

I know the mag has to be seated before moving but doesn't the slide have to be forward too? I got a procedural once for moving from behind cover before the slide was in battery. I didn't think it was a procedural but the SO stood his ground.




Gary

[fm2]

I know the mag has to be seated before moving but doesn't the slide have to be forward too? I got a procedural once for moving from behind cover before the slide was in battery. I didn't think it was a procedural but the SO stood his ground.
Gary

Do you mean out of battery, slidelocked back?

If it's a tac reload, the slide should be foreward. Other wise, it's a speed reload,gun ran dry, slide back.

You shouldn't leave cover with a gun that is not ready to enguage the BG, not a tactically sound principal, I side with the SO.

[Skiprr]

Keep in mind if you do a Tac reload you must store your mag before moving. I got a penalty on a stage for that.

Ooh. We need one of our resident MD/SO-type experts to help us out here.

I'd made a previous mental note that one of the substantive differences between a Tac Reload and RWR was that you could move before stowing the removed magazine. As our five-gun sharpshooter, HighVelocity, noted, the rules stipulate that for a reload to be considered complete (from the rule book): "Reloads may only begin when the shooter is fully behind cover and will be deemed completed when the fresh magazine is seated and the slide is fully forward or the cylinder is closed.")

By definition, you can't complete a RWR without having already stowed the used magazine. But the tac is specified as A. drawing a fresh magazine prior to ejection of the old one; B. Dropping the old one from the gun; C. Inserting the new one; D. Stowing the old magazine properly.

The rules specify that failure to properly stow the old mag "prior to firing the the first shot after the reload will incur a procedural penalty." But nowhere do they state that once a reload is completed--meaning new mag seated and slide forward--that you can't begin moving to a different location. There's more detail about reloading from cover and not moving from a position of cover until the new mag is fully seated and the slide fully forward on page 44 of the rule book.

But since the book says nuthin' nowhere about whether it is explicitly legal to move after a tac reload but before the old mag is fully stowed away, I tried to figure out where I got the notion that doing so was not only legal, but about the only real speed advantage of a tac over a RWR (yeah, arguably the tac means you have a charged mag in your hand before you release the old one, so tactically it makes good sense because even if you fumble removing the old one, you're closer to successful fire-on-target...but there are more moving parts in a tac and more likelihood for me to fumble removal of the old mag ).

So I hunted around and found this at Colin County IDPA's Website in an article about tips for shooting the Classifier (http://www.ccidpa.org/clastips.html):

If you do a true IDPA-approved tactical reload (drawing the spare magazine, swapping it with the depleted magazine at the gun, and then stowing the depleted magazine), you may gain a significant time advantage in Stage 3 string 2. According to IDPA rules, you may move out from cover after seating the fresh magazine, and not before. But you may stow the depleted magazine while running forward to the barrel. You are OK rule-wise as long as the used magazine is stowed before you fire another shot.

And at the IDPA official Website in the SO instructions for the Classifier (http://www.idpa.com/classify_instructor.asp) in discussion about Stage 3 is:

On string two the shooter is considered to be "LOADED" and may advance towards the barrel when the fresh magazine locks into place or revolver cylinder is closed.

But I'll be darned if I can find anything that specifically states the shooter can't get on the move after tac-load once the new mag is fully seated and the slide fully forward...he just can't fire a shot until the old mag is stowed.

I'm not even the little "t" in "expert," so all of this is really a long, rambling question to the folks who can set us straight...