May 21-25 CHL Instructor Class

[WildBill]

That is something that really bothers me--It's almost like some people think--Oh well-so what if I have to go to jail-I'll win in court.

So I would win in court--I know that--BUT--I DON"T WANT TO GO TO JAIL FOR ANY REASON!!!! I don't understand why people are so cavalier about it--to me THAT is a big deal!

Justme - I don't think most people are being cavalier. Maybe some of it is bravado, but carrying your statement to the extreme "I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JAIL FOR ANY REASON!!!" deters some people from owning a gun, using it for self defense, and carrying it in public.

Of course, I don't want to go to jail, but I would be willing to go to jail [temporarily] if it was a consequence of shooting a BG who was trying to kill me.

[JustMe]

I'm not talking about the possibility of a self-defense situation where things would need to be sorted out. And it doesn't deter me from carrying, and wouldn't deter me from using if unfortunately I had to.

I'm talking about people who are willing to go to jail to "prove a point" about signs-or alcohol--or generally POP so they can be a "test case"

[clarionite]

And as far as Gun Buster signs, we were told they don't apply to us.
We were told that knit picking about 30.06 signs being exactly 1" in height would end up being interpreted by a judge if an officer decided that it was "Good Enough"

It sounds the same as "printing" because it's not illegal but it can end up being decided by a judge or jury if the cop thinks you're not concealing good enough.

Both of these cases would have to get by the DA before a judge or jury would see them.

And in some jurisdictions in TX, we don't have a 2A friendly DA. And believe it or not, sometimes DA's play politics with the law and their beliefs.
I'm not saying it's right. But pretending it doesn't exist, or being upset because we're warned that it can happen to me seems silly.

[clarionite]

Sounds like they are teacjhing everything just the way they should to me.

Great take-away clarionite. Sounds like you had a great class. I expected as much. Looking forward to my class in June.

I thought so Kieth B. Good luck with your class in June. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

[TexasGal]

I think the vast majority of us do not want to push the envelope. That is why there has been so little problems with the CHL's who carry daily. Some of us perhaps are rightfully frustrated that some things are not all the way we want them YET. Many are working tirelessly to use our good record as leverage to get us those increased freedoms including the fine individuals who are teaching new instructors and working in the legislature. I do not wish to make their jobs harder.

As far as me making decisions for my students as was mentioned earlier by SJFControl, I do not disagree. I have decided how I personally want to approach the areas of the law/signs we all seem to discuss a lot. I will tell my students to make those decisions for themselves as well. Here is the law as written. Here is the fact that some jurisdictions/police may not interpret those the way we want them to. Here is the fact that lawyers are not cheap and DA's do not always like the CHL laws. My opinion is not the law and I am not a lawyer to give a legal opinion of the law.

However, we are all affected by the decisions we make because a stupid decision ends up on the evening news and the anti's take it as manna from heaven. Just look at the Trayvon Martin case. It is being used by the antis to turn public opinion against stand your ground laws. We all are individuals with the right to make our own choices, but we should not lose sight of the fact those choices can have a negative impact for everyone. I do intend to teach that. It is common sense and it is part of being responsible for protecting everyone's right to carry. I think the new instructor's classes coming up will see for themselves the DPS has a sincere concern not to limit our rights, but to give us every ability they can to exercise them without getting into trouble.

[WildBill]

And in some jurisdictions in TX, we don't have a 2A friendly DA. And believe it or not, sometimes DA's play politics with the law and their beliefs.
I'm not saying it's right. But pretending it doesn't exist, or being upset because we're warned that it can happen to me seems silly.

I am not pretending it doesn't exist nor am I getting upset. DAs are politicians, so of course they will play politics. I think that it is good that CHL students warned about the possibilities of encountering anti-gun cops, and DAs. That doesn't mean that people who don't agree are cavalier or wrong.

I also don't think that anyone on the forum wants to be a test case. That would involve many months in the court systems paying a lawyer. Also you would lose your CHL until your case is disposed. I don't think any forum member would be willing to risk that just to "prove a point".

[sjfcontrol]

Another thing to consider. You say you have no problem using your gun to protect your life, but if you're not carrying it at church or on school property (not in buildings) because you're afraid of the consequences, you are not able to protect yourself in those locations, even though you could have legally. you've disarmed yourself and are now vulnerable, simply to protect yourself from something that is not illegal.

Keep in mind that everything you do in life involves some level of risk. There is risk involved in avoiding risk, too.

But I would never recommend Behaving in a manner that makes you uncomfortable. It is a decision to be made by each person for themselves.

I appologise if I seemed a bit millitant in previous posts, but this is a subject I am passionate about. I believe that it is just as wrong to tell a student that he should never carry past an unenforceable sign, as. It is to tell them that they could never get in trouble for it. Explain the law, explain the risks, and let them figure out where their comfort level lies. After all, it will be up to them to deal with the consequences either way.

[TexasGal]

"Explain the law, explain the risks, and let them figure out where their comfort level lies."

This is not in opposition to what is being taught to new instructors. We were warned that while we have the choice to carry past questionable signs, we may face an unpleasant outcome if we do. And I took no offense at anything you have said. We all have a passionate position on concealed carry.

[sjfcontrol]

"Explain the law, explain the risks, and let them figure out where their comfort level lies."

This is not in opposition to what is being taught to new instructors. We were warned that while we have the choice to carry past questionable signs, we may face an unpleasant outcome if we do. And I took no offense at anything you have said. We all have a passionate position on concealed carry.

Good! Then it sounds like we're all in agreement. Including DPS.

[cw3van]

I also was in the same class as Texasgal & agree with what was said by her. The bad part that I've not heard anyone talk about is even if you win the case you still have an arrest record so everytime you fill out an application or anything that asked have you ever been arrested the answer would be yes. Also your right to carry will be suspended until the case is over. In closing I believe the DPS staff were excellent with both teaching us the law & trying to protect the CHL program for all of us.