Parking Lot Redux

[mossytxn]

So my building just recently posted (legally worded) 30.06 signs at the entrance to the parking lot. The company I work for does not own the building, but we lease a portion and "buy" rights to a certain amount of spaces in the parking garage. I am not an officer of the company, but my boss is sympathetic. They also have the sticker on the building entry doors banning what seems to be a Beretta 92 with a slash through it. I know this sign has no meaning, but what about the one on the parking garage? I cannot find a definitive answer.

If I were carrying under MPA this sign would have no weight. If I leave it in the truck when I go into work (which I do anyway) then it is still in my private property. What say you CHL peeps?

I also find it strange that the parking garage is posted, but the building is not. Go figure. I have the Parking Lot bill downloaded. What section covers this situation being that we do not own the garage?

[Teamless]

Keep it in the car, no worries

[mossytxn]

<-- not a lawyer, or even good at legalese....

what specific portion of the bill enumerates that?

[baldeagle]

The legislature passed a bill in the last session that bars private and public employers (with some exceptions) from preventing an employee from bringing a gun into the parking lot. The sign is null and void.

Texas Labor Code

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.


Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:

(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or

(2) apply to:

(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;

(B) a school district;

(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;

(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;

(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or

(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:

(i) that contains the physical plant;

(ii) that is not open to the public; and

(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.

(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

[C-dub]

I'm pretty sure the OP is aware of that. I think he's asking if this also covers someone that is not your employer posting their parking lot. I work at a grocery store in a strip mall and my employer does not have a weapon policy regarding keeping it in the vehicle, but won't allow me to carry inside. Can the owner of the strip mall and parking lot prevent me from having my gun in my vehicle?

IDK on this one. I think the spirit of the law would indicate that they cannot, but I'm not sure it spells that out sufficiently.

[Keith B]

There is no case law on this one, but my defense would be if my employer leases space in a building, and there is a parking lot provided for those who work in the building, then they can't prohibit me from keeping it locked in the car per the new parking lot law.

Again, there is no case law and this would be my argument if I was charged with criminal trespass because of it.

[mossytxn]

C-dub sums up my question nicely. Spirit vs. specific wording.

[recaffeination]

The legislature passed a bill in the last session that bars private and public employers (with some exceptions) from preventing an employee from bringing a gun into the parking lot. The sign is null and void.

If the OP is an employee of the property management company that posted the sign, it doesn't apply.

If the OP is not an employee, the company is not prevented from prohbiting his guns in their parking lot. The law only limits an employers restrictions on employees. This was discussed in depth when the bill was going through the legislature.












(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in

(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:

(i) that contains the physical plant;

(ii) that is not open to the public; and

(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.

(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.[/quote][/quote]

[Keith B]

If the OP is an employee of the property management company that posted the sign, it doesn't apply.

If the OP is not an employee, the company is not prevented from prohbiting his guns in their parking lot. The law only limits an employers restrictions on employees. This was discussed in depth when the bill was going through the legislature.

Please tell me where this is defined? I don't believe that to be the case. Here is an example; we lease property at several locaitons. We use the parking lot. However, we are NOT employees of the management company. I don't believe they would be able to prohibit employees working at our from keeping a firearm in their car.

[sjfcontrol]

30.06 signs only apply to carry under CHL. When you're in your car, you are carrying under MPA. The sign does not apply to firearms in cars regardless of who posted the sign or who owns the parking lot.

That said, it doesn't mean somebody might not make a fuss about it if they found out.

[recaffeination]

KeithB,

The law says an employer may not prohibit an employee from having a gun in their car. It doesn't say companies can't prohibit other people from having guns in cars on company property.

Employees. Not customers. Not students. Not lessees. Not vendors. Not salesmen. Not visitors. Not trespassers. Only employees.

[Keith B]

KeithB,

The law says an employer may not prohibit an employee from having a gun in their car. It doesn't say companies can't prohibit other people from having guns in cars on company property.

Employees. Not customers. Not students. Not lessees. Not vendors. Not salesmen. Not visitors. Not trespassers. Only employees.

If I am an employee of the company that is leasing part of that property, and part of that property is the parking lot we are to use, then IMO they cannot prohibit me from carrying in my vehicle as it is part of my employment location.

And, I don't believe we as CHL's can claim MPA. If the handgun is on or about our person, then we would be considered carrying under CHL and held to the higher standard. Not that I like that, but believe that to be the case.

[sjfcontrol]

KeithB,

The law says an employer may not prohibit an employee from having a gun in their car. It doesn't say companies can't prohibit other people from having guns in cars on company property.

Employees. Not customers. Not students. Not lessees. Not vendors. Not salesmen. Not visitors. Not trespassers. Only employees.

If I am an employee of the company that is leasing part of that property, and part of that property is the parking lot we are to use, then IMO they cannot prohibit me from carrying in my vehicle as it is part of my employment location.

And, I don't believe we as CHL's can claim MPA. If the handgun is on or about our person, then we would be considered carrying under CHL and held to the higher standard. Not that I like that, but believe that to be the case.

Inside the car, it doesn't matter if the gun is on our person or in the glove box, or elsewhere. It's all the same under the law. MPA, PC46.02(a-1) clearly states " ... carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle ..."

And as previously discussed, since the CHL is an exception to PC 46.02 we are only carrying under the authority of our CHL when carry without CHL would otherwise be illegal. Since it's not illegal to carry in a vehicle (MPA), we are not carrying under CHL while in our vehicles.

And we've been here before... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53668&p=657495&hili ... pa#p657536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MOA]

So my building just recently posted (legally worded) 30.06 signs at the entrance to the parking lot. The company I work for does not own the building, but we lease a portion and "buy" rights to a certain amount of spaces in the parking garage. I am not an officer of the company, but my boss is sympathetic. They also have the sticker on the building entry doors banning what seems to be a Beretta 92 with a slash through it. I know this sign has no meaning, but what about the one on the parking garage? I cannot find a definitive answer.

If I were carrying under MPA this sign would have no weight.

Maybe not but then a sticker like the one on the building would be notice if they had one at the parking lot entrance.

[C-dub]

And as previously discussed, since the CHL is an exception to PC 46.02 we are only carrying under the authority of our CHL when carry without CHL would otherwise be illegal. Since it's not illegal to carry in a vehicle (MPA), we are not carrying under CHL while in our vehicles.

And we've been here before... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53668&p=657495&hili ... pa#p657536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, there's an interesting twist in the plot. I had always believed as Keith B does that once one has a CHL and is off of their own property they are always carrying under that authority. However, now I'm not so sure. Although it might be pretty tough to explain that to an officer during a traffic stop or whatever reason one is being asked for identification, at least the penalty for not displaying, showing, or notifying the LEO that one has a CHL. Now, I guess, another separate issue whether or not there is a penalty for just flat out not having your license with you making you unable to to show your license once the officer asks you why you didn't not give it to him with your DL when he asked you for your ID. I believe there a few threads on that around here somewhere, though.