Military Base visit - Lackland AFB

[Keith B]

harrycallahan.......You might want to rephrase the last part of that statement so that it will have application to Sergeant Major Bronco78 [newly returned from Afghanistan where he was Regional Command operations Sergeant Major]. He might not brag on that, but I will for him, and he might actually know a thing or three that you don't. So "yelling" at him in ALL-CAPS and calling him ignorant is way out of line. Sometimes we show our own ignorance in things without intending to, but a good man will apologize and try to walk his comments back when his error is pointed out to him. I'd like to think that you're a good man.

Just my 2¢.

Thank you, but in all fairness, I too inferred something from the two posts that was not there..

I understood in the initial post, that the weapon was carried... I did read about the instructions given to the OP, but not that he complied with them..

In any case.. only carrying a concealed weapon is governed by federal law..
The mere possession on a post or base is controlled at the base commander level.

If Lackland Airbase and the Base Wing commander (502nd) has policy that allows personal weapons to be brought on base, then good for them.. Nice to see it.

So long as the 802nd security forces squadron understands and implements those policies, all should be well.

This was the understanding I had. As long as I never exited the vehicle, that even loaded in the vehicle with me was OK. However, if I left the vehicle or parked it, the weapon MUST stay inside and they wanted it unloaded.

[E.Marquez]

This was the understanding I had. As long as I never exited the vehicle, that even loaded in the vehicle with me was OK. However, if I left the vehicle or parked it, the weapon MUST stay inside and they wanted it unloaded.

I’m not AF.
I’m not a SP.
I’m not a JAG dude.

BUT, posted online the base commander policy states the weapon must be unloaded and secured... only exception is for a LEO conducting business on base.
I’ve asked for JAG to clarify the wing commanders policy.

NOT looking to stir the pot, but do not want to see anyone get hemmed up due to inaccurate or unevenly applied information.

[speedsix]

...right on...and those of us who've been in the military know what the Colonel thinks of what the noncom told you you could do....

[Keith B]

This was the understanding I had. As long as I never exited the vehicle, that even loaded in the vehicle with me was OK. However, if I left the vehicle or parked it, the weapon MUST stay inside and they wanted it unloaded.

I’m not AF.
I’m not a SP.
I’m not a JAG dude.

BUT, posted online the base commander policy states the weapon must be unloaded and secured... only exception is for a LEO conducting business on base.
I’ve asked for JAG to clarify the wing commanders policy.

NOT looking to stir the pot, but do not want to see anyone get hemmed up due to inaccurate or unevenly applied information.

I just did what I was told by the AP Sgt. at the desk and was directed to do by the AP at the gate. End of story and discussion.

[E.Marquez]

End of story and discussion.

So your moderation in this discussion is to forbid us from discussing it?

Or your just no longer willing to participate in the discussion?

As I told the other poster, Im not implying you did anything counter to what you were directed to do.

BUT, that does not change the fact, it was not in compliance to the posted policy, or in your case federal law.

But you ended this discussion, so. I guess that’s that.
I don’t apologize for trying to put some factual information in addition to related stories of what was allowed (though no fault of the posters )

If that riled some posters (and a moderator), well that was an unintended outcome.

[Keith B]

End of story and discussion.

So your moderation in this discussion is to forbid us from discussing it?

Or your just no longer willing to participate in the discussion?

As I told the other poster, Im not implying you did anything counter to what you were directed to do.

BUT, that does not change the fact, it was not in compliance to the posted policy, or in your case federal law.

But you ended this discussion, so. I guess that’s that.
I don’t apologize for trying to put some factual information in addition to related stories of what was allowed (though no fault of the posters )

If that riled some posters (and a moderator), well that was an unintended outcome.

No, I just don't have anything else to say. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I will not argue if it was illegal or not. I simply followed the directions given to me by the powers that were in charge at the time. Besides, they were the ones who would be arresting me anyway.

[JJVP]

End of story and discussion.

So your moderation in this discussion is to forbid us from discussing it?

Or your just no longer willing to participate in the discussion?

As I told the other poster, Im not implying you did anything counter to what you were directed to do.

BUT, that does not change the fact, it was not in compliance to the posted policy, or in your case federal law.

But you ended this discussion, so. I guess that’s that.
I don’t apologize for trying to put some factual information in addition to related stories of what was allowed (though no fault of the posters )

If that riled some posters (and a moderator), well that was an unintended outcome.

He followed the directions given to him by the person in charge. No different than if a policeman manning a traffic light instructs you to continue even thou the light is red.

[speedsix]

...in reality it IS different...in your example...the officer DOES have authority to send you through that red light...and would almost assuredly stand behind you...

...when one officer gives you a "huss"...(excuses you from obeying a rule on a military base...)his authority to do that is not the same...and he surely can't override the gunnery sergeant or lieutenant who might be the one who actually stops you or catches you carrying after you leave the gate...they might choose to rigidly enforce the laws/rules as written...and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on...that's the military way...

[Keith B]

...in reality it IS different...in your example...the officer DOES have authority to send you through that red light...and would almost assuredly stand behind you...

...when one officer gives you a "huss"...(excuses you from obeying a rule on a military base...)his authority to do that is not the same...and he surely can't override the gunnery sergeant or lieutenant who might be the one who actually stops you or catches you carrying after you leave the gate...they might choose to rigidly enforce the laws/rules as written...and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on...that's the military way...

I'm not in the military, so I followed the directions of the nice military police man. That's my story Your Honor and I'm sticking to it.

[speedsix]

...well, I'm glad you got away with it...otherwise, who'd eat all the stale donuts 'round here...but I wouldn't count on the next poor slob gettin' away with it...

[Heartland Patriot]

This was the understanding I had. As long as I never exited the vehicle, that even loaded in the vehicle with me was OK. However, if I left the vehicle or parked it, the weapon MUST stay inside and they wanted it unloaded.

I’m not AF.
I’m not a SP.
I’m not a JAG dude.

BUT, posted online the base commander policy states the weapon must be unloaded and secured... only exception is for a LEO conducting business on base.
I’ve asked for JAG to clarify the wing commanders policy.

NOT looking to stir the pot, but do not want to see anyone get hemmed up due to inaccurate or unevenly applied information.

That's a good thing, IMHO. I've seen a few "policy letters" over the years that were likely the result of notes from a commander given to their exec to turn into a actual letter. The execs are very often young lieutenants who do their very best job, but might lack experience and whose writing style comes directly out of the "Tongue and Quill", which is the USAF handbook on official communications...in other words, they "fill in the gaps", based on AF instructions, on the written version of the policy. Not saying the commander doesn't look it over after its written, but if its written well, it probably gets a signature. Sometimes the policy letters need a little "revision" after the rubber has met the road a time or two. IMHO, of course.

[donkey]

The policy on the transport and storage of personal firearms on an AFB varies by base. Usually these policies are posted online or you can call the Law Enforcement Desk at the base. The policies can range from unloaded, locked up, and out of reach to checking it into the armory to a complete ban.

The only individuals authorized to carry a firearm loaded and concealed are individuals with an AF Form 523 or federal agents on official business. If the base has concurrent jurisdiction, then state/local LEOs may carry when responding to an incident on base. This is the official USAF policy for every base.

Is this policy always followed? Obviously not, as we have two examples in this thread. If the on duty Flight Chief gives the ok for you to carry provided you stay in the vehicle, you're probably safe. Just remember that technically it is against the law and if shift change occurs or the Flight Commander/Ops Officer/Squadron Commander shows up then the Flight Chief may not have a choice but to follow the policy/law. Also keep in mind that Security Forces isn't the only LE presence on base. AFOSI may be conducting their own operations, and OSI may or may not "interpret" USAF policy the way SF does.

[E.Marquez]

The official policy and answer for Lackland AFB:

SGM,

If there is a visitor that comes onto Lackland AFB and they are carrying a weapon, they are required to tell the Security Forces member at the gate, that they have a weapon. The SF member will then call for a police escort (if available) and they will be escorted to the 802 SFS armory for temporary storage. If an escort is not available they will be given directions and be told to proceed directly to the armory. Once the individual is ready to depart the base, they will retrieve their weapon from the armory and proceed directly off the installation.

Please let me know if you have any further question.

MSgt Torrey W. Aiken
NCOIC Logistics
802 Security Forces Squadron
Comm: 210-671-8242
DSN: 473-8242

[Originalist]

The official policy and answer for Lackland AFB:

SGM,

If there is a visitor that comes onto Lackland AFB and they are carrying a weapon, they are required to tell the Security Forces member at the gate, that they have a weapon. The SF member will then call for a police escort (if available) and they will be escorted to the 802 SFS armory for temporary storage. If an escort is not available they will be given directions and be told to proceed directly to the armory. Once the individual is ready to depart the base, they will retrieve their weapon from the armory and proceed directly off the installation.

Please let me know if you have any further question.

MSgt Torrey W. Aiken
NCOIC Logistics
802 Security Forces Squadron
Comm: 210-671-8242
DSN: 473-8242

There are two places that are authorized storage places (as listed in the Base Defense Plan). It is an Armory or base housing. Now for base housing it must be secured or locked (kinda like the DC laws pre Heller). I would argue, Heller overrides those restrictions in the house itself, moreso if it is privatized housing but that is a different thread. As for transport, I will tell you there is no sign posted notifying you of a duty to inform at the gate. Here is what the IDP says for transport:

g. On-Base Transport of POWs. Personnel with privately owned firearms who reside in family housing or reside in the dormitories (dormitory residents must store firearms in the 802 SFS Armory) must transport their firearms on the installation in the following manner:
1. Personnel must proceed directly to an installation perimeter gate when transporting POWs and/or ammunition from their base residence. Upon entering the installation with a POW and or ammunition, personnel must inform the gate sentry and then proceed directly to their base residence to properly store the items. Stopping between these locations with a POW and or ammunition is prohibited except for extreme emergencies.
2. Firearms will be unloaded at all times.
3. Physically separate firearms and associated ammunition and prohibit ability to rapidly load the firearm; example: For a passenger car the firearm should be in the trunk and the ammunition in the passenger compartment. For a pick-up truck the firearm should be secured in a hard or soft case behind the back seat and the ammunition secured in the glove box.
4. State permits to carry concealed firearms are not valid on the installation.
5. Carrying, handling, using, or transporting firearms while impaired by or under the influence of any intoxicant/drug is strictly prohibited on the installation.
6. Accomplish transport of firearms in a standard passenger vehicle (van, truck, car, etc.).