Who has authority to ask you to leave?

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar
anygunanywhere
Senior Member
Posts: 7877
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Richmond, Texas

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by anygunanywhere »

snatchel wrote:
C-dub wrote:
philip964 wrote:Wow a security team at church.

My have things changed since I was a boy. I remember that Catholic churches were always left unlocked day or night so you could come in and pray at any time. I suppose that has probably changed.

Is everyone on the security team armed. I hope so. I would hate to be a member of a security team and be unarmed. That blocking bullets with your body thing probably doesn't make your day.

I just sort of like CHL allowed and encouraged, so if the devil decides to make a visit, they will find they are unwelcome.
I am Catholic, but don't know if my church's doors are open 24/7 or not.

The security team, unless they are license PI's or something like that, cannot be armed.
I can give you some insight in this..

I am pretty active in our parish and diocese... and the Bishop, Rev's, and Deacons are all anti-carry. As far as I know, no Texas diocese has come out and made an official no-carry statement, they definatly do not support it IN CHURCH.

I am really good friends with a Semenarian, now a Deacon waiting to be ordained a Priest, and this info has come from him. However, he does hve a CHL and does carry to every mass. He will continue carrying once he is a Priest. I carry as well.... we don't have a "security team." I bring my own security :thumbs2:

I forget where it was, somewhere up north though, but a State Diocese actually came out with written policy saying something to the effect of: Although our state does recognize the legality of carrying in church, we would appreciate you not doing so.. but as far as MY diocese, nothing like that has happened.

As far as the church being left open 24/7, mine is not. It closes around 7 in the evening. We do have a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel that is open and manned 24\7 though, that way parishoneers in the city can come in and pray or whatever.
Since the church, the Body of Christ, is comprised of sinners, humans, it will reflect some of the attitudes that exist in society as a whole. Unfortunately, it seems that those at the top do not often express the beliefs that we, the members of this forum, hold dear.

Our parish priest is a firm supporter of the second amendment and the RKBA. He has said so at Mass. He has spoken of our responsibilities as free men and the need for us to exercise our rights as enumerated in the constitution and BOR.

He knows many of us pack heat. We know who is armed. We are not a security force. We are just citizens with a more keen situational awareness than most and the intent to deal with a situation should it surface.

The local LEOs knows this as well and have discussed this with us.

We must remember that in most cases the statements made on these matters is just personal opinion.

The opinions of those bishops and priests that run counter to what we believe (firearms related) are just their personal opinions and do not actually reflect the teachings of the church. The church teaches the right and responsibility of us to defend ourselves and if the defense needs to be escalated to the point of taking a life, then that is what we must do.

Anygunanywere
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh

"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
User avatar
Dragonfighter
Senior Member
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by Dragonfighter »

The Annoyed Man wrote:
gigag04 wrote:<SNIP>
Does that mean that a FOWTAY is a FOATIE-FIE set on stun? "rlol"
Okay, now you're just gettin' ugly. Remember the fowtay...ahem...forty was used in the first CHL shooting in Texas and dropped the huge Samoan guy with one shot. Set on stun my...uh..did I type that out loud? :grumble
WildBill wrote: So, how many people would leave and join another church if this happened and the pastor upheld the no-carry policy?
I would. I have left elsewhere for departures from God's word, some with dire consequence. This would be a departure from God's word, IMHO.
I Thess 5:21
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANYL, IDNPOOTV, IDNSIAHIE and IANROFL
"There is no situation so bad that you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield, NASA ISS Astronaut
RPB
Banned
Posts: 8697
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by RPB »

:iagree:
Though there's hardly any chance any of the churches in my old-line/old-school denomination would become that liberal or anti-gun; I've seen churches change Pastors before if Pastors started getting too "progressive" .
I'm no lawyer

"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
User avatar
KC5AV
Senior Member
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:24 pm
Location: Marshall

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by KC5AV »

So, how many people would leave and join another church if this happened and the pastor upheld the no-carry policy?
I certainly would. Luckily, I had the opportunity to assist in the class my pastor and his son took.
NRA lifetime member
smoothoperator
Senior Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by smoothoperator »

What's the right Texas agency to report the guy running an unlicensed security agency with unlicensed security guards?



UPDATE: Texas DPS Private Security Board
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/PSB/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by smoothoperator on Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dave2
Senior Member
Posts: 3166
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:39 am
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by Dave2 »

smoothoperator wrote:What's the right Texas agency to report the guy running an unlicensed security agency with unlicensed security guards?
The police? I think I'd make sure the church knew they were breaking the law before calling them out on it, though.
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
smoothoperator
Senior Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by smoothoperator »

I don't get paid enough to argue with a LEO who doesn't know the law. I'll let DPS do that.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/PSB/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wienerdogtroy
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by Wienerdogtroy »

RiveraRa wrote:My church has had a security team for a while now. They are finally getting some good "training" on what to do in emergency situations.
I don't know all of the training they have received but I do know that a police officer in our church has been doing part of that training. He told them that even though you have a CHL, it is illegal to carry in church. We all know that is incorrect (unless properly posted, which my church is not). The first time someone is caught carrying, the security team is to ask them to leave it in the car. If they are caught a 2nd time, the police will be called.

So my question is, who has the authority to ask me to leave it in the car or to leave the property before I am to be considered trespassing?

We have the pastor, assistant pastor, elders, and then the security team.

I don't think (I really have no clue either way), that the pastor knows this is being taught. And if he did, I am assuming he would just believe the LEO in our church that told him it was illegal. The pastor is basically telling the security team, "Use this LEO in our church and get some training. Listen to what he has to say. He should know the laws." Its not like the pastor is say, I don't want any CHL's in here so ask anyone you catch to leave.

What does everyone think?
Find a new church. Tell them why.
User avatar
gigag04
Senior Member
Posts: 5474
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 7:47 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by gigag04 »

Dave2 wrote:
smoothoperator wrote:What's the right Texas agency to report the guy running an unlicensed security agency with unlicensed security guards?
The police? I think I'd make sure the church knew they were breaking the law before calling them out on it, though.
TxDPS runs the security licensing program
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
longtooth
Senior Member
Posts: 12329
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Angelina County

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by longtooth »

WildBill wrote:
So, how many people would leave and join another church if this happened and the pastor upheld the no-carry policy?


Here's a preacher that would change over a no-carry policy. I know several others that would too.
LT
Image
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
CHL Instructor. http://www.pdtraining.us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11
User avatar
WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by WildBill »

I have seen many off-duty officers [in uniform] providing private security. Do they need to be licensed?
NRA Endowment Member
AustinBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:05 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by AustinBoy »

I think a very politely written anonymous letter to the pastor would be the best thing to do.

Explain and state the law, very politely.

At this point they dont know who you are and you have not been given verbal notice while at the same time addressing the issue.

I would assume after reading the letter the pastor would speak with the security guy and things would get straightened out.

Just know that by doing this you might see a proper 30.06 sign next Sunday.

Or, the secruity guy and pastor may decide that it ok to carry.

Just my 2 cents.

AB
NRA - Life Member
TSRA - Life Member
User avatar
Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by Oldgringo »

There are as many, if not more, various and sundry churches/sects *** as there are State Farm Agents and we love our State Farm agent like a son. Find a church you are comfortable with and go on about your lives, for goodness' sake.

*** Y'all remember Perry's religious guy calling Mormons a sect? Does anybody remember Perry?
gringo pistolero
Senior Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:49 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by gringo pistolero »

WildBill wrote:I have seen many off-duty officers [in uniform] providing private security. Do they need to be licensed?
No but I think other people do, even if they're unarmed security.
I sincerely apologize to anybody I offended by suggesting the Second Amendment also applies to The People who don't work for the government.
dac1842
Senior Member
Posts: 441
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:15 pm

Re: Who has authority to ask you to leave?

Post by dac1842 »

A peace officer working security does not require a license to do so. However, if there is a security team, armed or unarmed they MUST be licensed by the Texas Private Security Board as a security company. There is not an exemption for being at a church nor having a CHL.
Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”