Another Army Corps question

[rwg3]

I am in a state with which we have reciprocity, and it borders one of the great lakes. In the event we go boating am I able to legally carry? I ask because the great lakes are administered by the Corps, as they have international boundaries. Each state who has the lake as a boundary also claims some jurisdiction. I tried following the links in an earlier thread which led to the Corps website but I was not able to get information there.

BTW I wasn't sure whether this belonged in this section or in the reciprocity section, but I chose here as I am carrying under the Texas license.

[RPBrown]

Not if its controled by CoE.

[RPB]

Is your question
"Who owns the Great Lakes?"
I mean if you want to build a fishing dock on a Lower Colorado River Authority (LCRA) Lake in Texas, you have to consult the US Army Corps of Engineers, but they do not "own" it, so they do not police, control who carry firearms on LCRA lakes.



You did not state:
1) which lake (Canada does not own any part of Lake Michigan)

2) which State you are in, or going to (you mention reciprocity) nor

3) anything about your boating laws nor weapons laws in those two States.

In Texas, no license is even needed for concealed watercraft/boat carry on non-ACOE owned property.

I have not found any source claiming that the US Army Corps of Engineers owns any part of the Great Lakes versus it being "owned" by the U.S. Dept of the Interior or any other agency..

the great lakes are administered by the Corps, as they have international boundaries.

That's odd since down here places with International Boundaries are NOT owned by/administered by the Corps.
Example: Lake Falcon:
Reservoir Controlling Authority
International Boundary & Water Commission
PO Box 1
Falcon Heights, Texas 78545
(956) 848-5211 or 5212
Canada owns some. I have no idea what Canada's laws are concerning boat carry.
Lake Michigan is the only Great Lake that is not shared with Canada.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_the_great_lakes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=283386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://daviddempsey.typepad.com/davesbl ... he_gr.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ask.com/answers/49327081/who ... -or-canada" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ssefo.com/features/faq/lakes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

=====================================================

Who "Polices" The Great Lakes ...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 829AAWepiv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Army Corps of Engineers no more "Owns" the Great Lakes than the US Coast Guard or Air Force or Marines or Navy or US Dept of Fish and Wildlife or Dept of Interior does.

But .... you haven't given enough info to answer your question about carrying in any particular State such as Michigan in their lake ...versus lakes co-owned between the US and Canada on the US side. People who go boating, hunting etc in the particular States you didn't mention here might know.

[rwg3]

Sorry for being vague. I am currently in Michigan at the confluence of Lakes Michigan and Huron. The State of Michigan laws do not say anything about carying on the lakes but it is not listed in the prohibited ccw places for Michigan. The reason for question about the Army Corps comes from a buddy's quest to put a boat dock on the shoreline. The permission came via a permit from the USACOE and not from either the State or local authorities. The explanation given by the state was that the Great Lakes are considered ( at least by the state DNR ) international waters and thus the Corps has control in the matter. I don't think I suggested that the corps owns the Lakes and there are state boundaries drwan on the maps which seem to show claim over the territory under the lake bed, however riparian rights is a big issue here (not to cloud the issue further) and I am not sure who has control over the space over land between the ordinary high water mark and the water, much less beyond.

All that being said, I am thinking that being stopped out on either Lake Michigan or Huron most likely would occur by the Coast Guard. In that case I am not sure which set of criteria they would choose to enforce. I believe at this point I will just call the local local USCG station and ask them.

Thanks for the input and helping me clarify things.

[RPB]

Army Corps of Engineers has to be consulted on adding docks, bulkheads etc on properties they do not "own" because of flood control etc. They're engineers. However, they don't control who can be armed (or other laws unrelated to what they do) on property they do not own but merely approve permits to build docks/bulkheads which might affect flood control etc.

Property owned by the Army and Army Corps of Engineers ... they say what's allowed on their property (such as you should be unarmed at Ft Hood, unless you are on the range, you should be unarmed during wild boar/rabid animal attacks etc etc)

IMHO, the Army has no business "owning" "public recreational lands." Those lands should be distributed to Fish and Wildlife/Dept of Interior/ US Forestry Service etc and the ACOE can still regulate flood matters on them just as they do on the Texas rivers under various river authorities and the National Seashores and Wildlife Preserves...

Perhaps rather than try to get the ACOE to re-write their regulations, through legislation that dies in Committee ... we should just divest them of "their" land and distribute it to more CHL/rights friendly Federal Agencies

[surferdaddy]

This whole darn thing is such a mess. I should just be able to carry anywhere.

[couzin]

RPB is correct - USACE does not own the fee land of the Great Lakes - the dock was subject to a permit (Section 404 Clean Water Act; Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899; other regs and statutes) because of the 'navigatible' waters definition only. The mere issuance of a permit does not mean ownership - just that there has been a consideration of impact. Don't worry about Corps jurisdiction in this case.

[RPB]

International Joint Commission Canada & United States
http://www.ijc.org/rel/agree/water.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
WHAT IS THE BOUNDARY WATERS TREATY?

Signed in 1909, it provides the principles and mechanisms to help resolve disputes and to prevent future ones, primarily those concerning water quantity and water quality along the boundary between Canada and the United States.

http://www.ijc.org/en/background/treat_trait.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jumping Frog]

I know plenty of people who carry on Lake Erie. They've been subject to US Coast Guard searches/"safety checks" plenty of times. Guns are never a problem

Don't stray into Canadian waters.

[rwg3]

I know plenty of people who carry on Lake Erie. They've been subject to US Coast Guard searches/"safety checks" plenty of times. Guns are never a problem

Don't stray into Canadian waters.

Excellent news, that is what I hoped to hear.

[ghostrider]

Don't stray into Canadian waters.

especially with firearms on board.