Caution in criticizing folks gun choice

[wgoforth]

All of us are biased to our favorite guns...otherwise they wouldn't be our favorite! And like to a caliber size. The caliber war will go on till the cows come home, and doubt that anyone really disagrees with the concept that bigger is better.

I would like to offer a thought of caution though in telling folks what ~they~ should get, or should have gotten or criticizing choices made. In CHL classes you probably heard the term "totality of the situation" (if not, you should have). This also applies to gun choices.

That fellow who carries a .32 may have severe arthritis in his wrists or neck and that little .32 be all he can take to be willing to practice with. His clothing requirement at work may require a .380 mouse gun at max. We may browbeat them into getting a Glock 26 that they now are not willing to practice with. Have we helped them? Then,you throw this in...I encourage spouses to find a gun that works for both of them and carry matching guns so they can swap mags in a fight, or if accidentally grabbing the others gun it doesn't confuse. So now finding one that fits both people limits it further.

I have seen little ladies with arthritic gnarled fingers in my class who could not hold a 9mm firmly in recoil. It jumped all over the place to the point of looking dangerous.

I guess the older I get the more understanding I am of what folks have to do in their lives to compromise for their lifestyle.

Anyway, just some thoughts about considering another guys choices.

Carry on!

[AEA]

Very good points!

[harrycallahan]

Thank you! It can get pretty deep around here at times! There are times when I feel like, dang, I only have one gun, no spare ammo and I don't have a hand gun chambered in a caliber capable of shooting down air craft or piercing tank armor. I mean, it can leave you feeling really, well, like you're missing something. I carry either a sw 38 special that my father carried in the seventies as a cop or I carry my sw 45 e. My wife carries a sw 380, and each choice is based on what we want and can shoot well. As soon as someone pulls out their soap box I am gone. However, I do recognize that some folks might be intimidated into going with a weapon that they either won't practice with or carry or both and that was because some chuckle head said that they should! I mean if you're not carrying a Glock with a 400 round mag, and sixteen spare mags along with a knife taped to your back, well man you're nearly dead already! Why even fight? Right?

[Keith B]

I agree with your general statement. However, you really need to know why they bought the gun. A lot of new shooters get bad advice because of their issues with arthritis, weak wrists, etc and end up buying the wrong thing.

I have a couple of lady friends in their late 60's that had gotten their CHL's and then listened to another longtime friend and against my advice bought KelTec P3-AT's without renting and trying them out first. I had suggested a larger or heavier semi-auto or a steel framed revolver to help with the perceived recoil, but they went ahead and bought them because they had known him for a long time and trusted his judgment. They took the guns to the range and literally shot two mags out of them and their wrists were hurting so bad they couldn't even hold the gun any more.

She called me a couple of days later, hat in hand, and asked my advice again. I told her to take them to the gun store, put them on consignment, rent a couple of different guns I suggested, and then they would know what they could easily handle. They both ended up with steel framed hammerless revolvers as I had originally suggested.

Bottom line, as you said, you need to know their situation and try to help them make the right decision based on their needs and justify the reason, not just criticize the gun because you personally don't like that brand or model.

[WildBill]

All of us are biased to our favorite guns...otherwise they wouldn't be our favorite! And like to a caliber size. The caliber war will go on till the cows come home, and doubt that anyone really disagrees with the concept that bigger is better.

I would like to offer a thought of caution though in telling folks what ~they~ should get, or should have gotten or criticizing choices made. In CHL classes you probably heard the term "totality of the situation" (if not, you should have). This also applies to gun choices.
I guess the older I get the more understanding I am of what folks have to do in their lives to compromise for their lifestyle.

Anyway, just some thoughts about considering another guys choices.

Carry on!

I am pro-choice on guns!

[CC Italian]

I have a couple of lady friends in their late 60's that had gotten their CHL's and then listened to another longtime friend and against my advice bought KelTec P3-AT's without renting and trying them out first.

I was one of those people who tried the .380 kel tec before buying and I am glad I did! Your right this isn't a handgun for an older lady. Just like when someone recommends the .38 snub for women in an air weight. Most don't like it! The p32 was far more accurate for me and way faster follow up shots but I only carry it when I have to because of workout contrasts. Otherwise I carry my lightweight snub .38 as a bug(never my primary) and that is not for everyone!

They both ended up with steel framed hammerless revolvers as I had originally suggested.

Hard to go wrong with a heavy chiefs special or sp-101 snub.

Keith- I am with you on this. Unless you need EDC it is easy to conceal any steel snub or micro 9mm. Match the gun to the person! I think the problem is alot of people want to pocket carry as a primary and imo that takes to long to draw anyways in an emergency. Really try to draw from your pocket and then your hip and think about if you are in a seated position in your car or at a restaurant. Your better of with an ankle holster while in your car! This is why I carry my primary on my hip and bug on my ankle. A bug in the front pocket is useless when your seat belt is on and you are seated in your car! It just takes to long. I could draw, fire two rounds and reholster my glock 27 or 20 from the hip before pulling my bug from my front pocket and squeeze off a round.

To each their own but I rather have a little bigger gun, a little more weight then worry about 5-10 ounces and a little bigger footprint but that is just me! If it works for YOU carry it!

[Keith B]

To each their own but I rather have a little bigger gun, a little more weight then worry about 5-10 ounces and a little bigger footprint but that is just me! If it works for YOU carry it!

That is especially true for women who are going to carry off-body. A factor for them is that extra 5-10 ounces is no big deal in a purse or bag that already weighs 20 lbs

And, more importantly, I emphasize to everyone I coach or teach to shoot or that get their CHL, that they need to be fairly proficient with their carry weapons. They don't need to be an Ed McGivern or Jerry Miculek, but they need to practice with it so they can at least hit the target at reasonable distances so that if they DO get into a defensive situation, the adrenalin and other factors that play into it will not compromise their shot placement as badly. If a person doesn't like the gun, or it is uncomfortable to shoot, then they will NOT practice with it and in turn it may fail them when they need it most.

[wgoforth]

I have a couple of lady friends in their late 60's that had gotten their CHL's and then listened to another longtime friend and against my advice bought KelTec P3-AT's without renting and trying them out first.

I was one of those people who tried the .380 kel tec before buying and I am glad I did! Your right this isn't a handgun for an older lady. Just like when someone recommends the .38 snub for women in an air weight. Most don't like it! The p32 was far more accurate for me and way faster follow up shots but I only carry it when I have to because of workout contrasts. Otherwise I carry my lightweight snub .38 as a bug(never my primary) and that is not for everyone!

They both ended up with steel framed hammerless revolvers as I had originally suggested.

Hard to go wrong with a heavy chiefs special or sp-101 snub.

Keith- I am with you on this. Unless you need EDC it is easy to conceal any steel snub or micro 9mm. Match the gun to the person! I think the problem is alot of people want to pocket carry as a primary and imo that takes to long to draw anyways in an emergency. Really try to draw from your pocket and then your hip and think about if you are in a seated position in your car or at a restaurant. Your better of with an ankle holster while in your car! This is why I carry my primary on my hip and bug on my ankle. A bug in the front pocket is useless when your seat belt is on and you are seated in your car! It just takes to long. I could draw, fire two rounds and reholster my glock 27 or 20 from the hip before pulling my bug from my front pocket and squeeze off a round.

To each their own but I rather have a little bigger gun, a little more weight then worry about 5-10 ounces and a little bigger footprint but that is just me! If it works for YOU carry it!

For sure on carry method, which is another issue too. In tight jeans, the CC would take too long. On something like pleated pants with very loose big pockets, no longer than in a holster, depending on how worn. The one time I did need to reach for my gun it was in jeans pocket. I learned and went to a Bullard 5:00 OWB carry.

[SQLGeek]

Good topic, wgoforth!

I think everybody has the right to carry as they see fit. I'm all for promoting the legal carrying of arms in many shapes and forms.

Bear in mind this is a two way street. I don't want to be regarded as crazy, Rambo or a wannabe cop because I choose to carry a G19 with a spare magazine (or two) and a knife.

We have enough perception problems from the antis, we don't need to rip each other to shreds as well.

[Kythas]

Agreed. My fiancee bought a Bersa Thunder .380 because it's the biggest gun she thinks she can carry, and it was the most comfortable for her to shoot except for the Kimber Ultra Carry .45. But, she didn't want to spend the difference in price between the two, and my thought was any gun you will carry is better than a bigger gun you won't.

[CC Italian]

In tight jeans, the CC would take too long.

I laugh when you see a guy in tight jeans and pocket carry! These are the only guys I have ever really seen printing. 80% sure it is a Kel tec or LCP. I like these pants for pocket carry but they are a little pricey but have been worth it imo. No more then a modestly priced holster. Not as fast as my holster but you could easily carry a PPS or LC9 in the front pocket and nobody would ever know. Plus they don't look tactical like some of the brands. You could wear it to work without anybody thinking twice. http://www.wearvertx.com/

[wgoforth]

In tight jeans, the CC would take too long.

I laugh when you see a guy in tight jeans and pocket carry! These are the only guys I have ever really seen printing. 80% sure it is a Kel tec or LCP. I like these pants for pocket carry but they are a little pricey but have been worth it imo. No more then a modestly priced holster. Not as fast as my holster but you could easily carry a PPS or LC9 in the front pocket and nobody would ever know. Plus they don't look tactical like some of the brands. You could wear it to work without anybody thinking twice.

http://www.wearvertx.com/

Wrangler Riatas are a good pleated, big and loose pocket pant. I wear those for casual dress most of the time. Pockets are big enough that if you did pocket carry, you could have your hand inside the pocket, on the gun ready to go and no one the wiser. If there is a tactical advantage to pocket carry, that would probably be it.

[wgoforth]

Might also say that people learn at their own pace in this thing, and their thinking and situations change. I used to not carry with one in the pipe and practiced racking as I drew in one fell swoop. I could do it quickly, and wasn't worried about it slowing. Carried a couple of years like that and feel it would work fine in many circumstances...but then started doing close-quarters drills. Gotta have a hand free to push back attacker while deploying weapon. Hard to rack like that (although can be done one handed). So I learned why I needed to carry in the #1 position. Hey, I'm even considering an M&P Shield or a Glock 26... but again, I am carrying what my wife can currently handle, the Sig P238 for now. Considering I can hit the X ring consistently at 10 yards, not too worried... but more is always better.

[barstoolguru]

That is a nice write up BUT the man that can't carry a 9mm in his dress suit is not dressing right or carrying the wrong way. The woman with arthritis that can't hold a gun... it might be safer for the rest of the public for her not to carry! Chances are it might get taken away from her and used on her or in another crime.
Too many times I read or hear of someone not carrying bigger a gun that will do the job BECAUSE it is inconvenient. 32, 25 and 22 are better than a rock but then David slew goliath with a rock!

People get lazy or don’t explore their options. I was reading one guy said he couldn’t wear a full size gun because the handle stuck out too far. “Hey dude pull up your pants or better yet get some that fit better”. Those pants might have fit 10 years ago but not anymore and now you have a gun in the waist band; they are even tighter. Carrying a gun is a wardrobe change to accommodate the extra

Hip huggers are not for gun carriers and to the woman with 20 lbs of junk in her purse and is worried about an extra 8 ozs ; get real… empty some of the junk out. Chances are a small gun will be lost any way in between the makeup and the female hygiene products

I for one have changed a lot of things I do because of boards like this and “criticism” because if 10 people are telling you something isn’t right then you would be a fool not to listen’

A tree that doesn’t flex will break in the winds of change

edit: here is a bus shooting watch as the gunman PULLS an assault rifle out of his pants, now put yourself on that bus do you think a 32 or 25 is going to do some good? Even if you pull it out 6 shots and your done and I doubt if anyone that carries a 25 or 32 will have the hindsight to have an extra mag. say it... "IT will never happen to me" and I bet those people on the bus never expected it either

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qR6HJrZUtU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and one more thing

The caliber war will go on till the cows come home, and doubt that anyone really disagrees with the concept that bigger is better.

most if not all studys say that 45 is no better then a 9mm and I refer to this as proof ....
http://www.usconcealedcarry.net/2012/07 ... led-carry/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sangiovese]

Might also say that people learn at their own pace in this thing, and their thinking and situations change.

This is definitely true. My wife started with a Bersa Thunder .380, and moved to an HK USP 9mm compact pretty quickly. After we went to gunsite, she traded in the 9mm for a .45. The key is that at each stage in her journey she was comfortable with the weapon, enjoyed practicing, and was willing to carry it with her.