His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

recaffeination wrote:I suppose it depends whether you think a conservative is someone who supports small government in compliance with the constitution or if you think a conservative is a person of faith who supports big government to impose his beliefs on others through blue laws, punitive taxation on "sin" and so on.
You can define "conservative" in this manner only for yourself. That's not my definition of "conservative" nor is it a definition I've heard from anyone else. It appears you are either a Libertarian, or have Libertarian leanings. If so, why not just say that instead of trying to redefine the term "conservative" that has pretty much a nationwide connotation that isn't remotely close to what you describe?

For decades, a "conservative" has been recognized as someone who supports smaller, less intrusive government, lower taxes, minimal social programs, strong national defense, strong enforcement of immigration laws, as well as laws, policies and norms that adhere to traditional Judeo-Christian values (a/k/a "family values"). Liberals have been recognized as people who support larger government with greater control over our lives, higher taxes, large (ever-growing) social programs, and laws that restrict or require all manner of actions by citizens. Only in recent years have liberals chosen to abandon Judeo-Christian values and allow an "anything goes" attitude on some but not all social issues.

Just as anti-gun advocates stopped using the term "gun-control" in favor of "gun safety" to hide their true agenda, liberals have come to realize that the terms "liberal" and "liberalism" have become ugly words to most Americans, so they created the euphemism "progressives." That's like a 300 lb. man trying to hide behind a twig. They can wear any name badge they wish, but when they open their mouths liberalism spews forth. Libertarians now claim to be the only "true conservatives" where once they proudly claimed to be neither liberal nor conservative, but something entirely different. Well, their version of "different" didn't sell very well, so they followed the lead of liberals. While Libertarians didn't come up with a new word as did liberals, they chose to redefine "conservative" to fit their platform and beliefs. That hasn't worked either and it never will.

I earlier said the Libertarian Party Platform was a mixture of both ultraconservative and ultraliberal planks. I misspoke. The Libertarian Platform is ultraliberal on social issues, but anarchist on most other issues, with only a few planks that traditional conservatives would recognize or support. Trying to call this any form of "conservatism" is just as poor camouflage as liberals calling themselves "progressives" or Sarah Brady talking about gun safety. https://www.lp.org/files/LP%20Platform%202012.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (If you read it, read all of it.)

It has been my experience that a shocking percentage of strong Libertarians, including those who are the most ardent Ron Paul supporters, don't know what the Libertarian Party Platform contains. That's both sad and scary. Those that do know what the Platform contains try to ignore the utterly absurd positions stated by pointing to one or two social issues like same-sex marriage and say "it's none of the government's business." Have a look at what the Libertarian Party really wants and keep a running scoresheet of what is liberal, conservative and anarchist.

I know it's coming so I'll head it off now. I don't like some of what the Republican Party has done or allowed to happen, but the answer is to elect Tea Party Republicans. These candidates are winning and their impact is already beginning to be felt in Washington and in Austin. It's not an overnight fix, but it will work if people start supporting these true conservatives.

Chas.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by baldeagle »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I know it's coming so I'll head it off now. I don't like some of what the Republican Party has done or allowed to happen, but the answer is to elect Tea Party Republicans. These candidates are winning and their impact is already beginning to be felt in Washington and in Austin. It's not an overnight fix, but it will work if people start supporting these true conservatives.

Chas.
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by CC Italian »

recaffeination-
I suppose it depends whether you think a conservative is someone who supports small government in compliance with the constitution or if you think a conservative is a person of faith who supports big government to impose his beliefs on others through blue laws, punitive taxation on "sin" and so on.
I understand where you are coming from. My friends who are liberals call me a conservative because I am pro 2nd amendment and for smaller govt. for the most part. My friends who are conservative tell me I am a liberal because I am not a practicing Christian.

So what does it all mean? Your like 40% of the country. No one party represents the whole foundations of my personal beliefs. Not democrat, not republican and not liberation. I am sure many religious and small govt. conservatives as Charles pointed out feel the same way about the Republican Party.


or if you think a conservative is a person of faith who supports big government to impose his beliefs on others through blue laws, punitive taxation on "sin" and so on.
I actually know several people like this. All live in the northeast but they are big government Christians. They call themselves liberals. Also, think about the African American community. Many are very religious but are hard core democrats.

All of these issues I have with different parties are social or personal belief issues. The one constant for me is small or controlled govt and the fact that I believe that free trade and capitalism is far better then big government or socialism. Therefore I never vote democrat because as far as I am concerned they are not pro capitalism.

Economic growth and the ability to take care of yourself and your loved ones and not have govt. do it for you is what my main concern is.

Edit: So am I a conservative or liberal? Who cares! Vote for the one who is going to hopefully best represent your beliefs.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

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CC Italian wrote:My friends who are liberals call me a conservative because I am pro 2nd amendment and for smaller govt. for the most part. My friends who are conservative tell me I am a liberal because I am not a practicing Christian.
That's plainly silly. You don't have to be a Christian to believe in small government, liberty and capitalism.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by CC Italian »

Also like Charles talked about. While I like some of the ideas of the Libertarian Party much of it is to extreme for me! True hard core Libertarianism scares me pretty good and not for any religious reasons but for their economic stance, foreign policy and the fact that they make most Republicans look like Democrats when comparing the size and scope of govt. If they had it their way we would all be back on the barter system and the federal govt would have the power of the Queen of England.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

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My friends who are liberals call me a conservative because I am pro 2nd amendment and for smaller govt. for the most part. My friends who are conservative tell me I am a liberal because I am not a practicing Christian.
That’s what I said but what do I know. I am not a true conservative because I am not religious and I am not a true liberal because I like small govt. and guns. I guess I can’t be in their group! Oh well Ill get over it! :patriot:
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

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Fiscally conservative, small government, socially libertarian (not liberal/progressive, libertarian) ....
When somebody with some gravitas starts that party, I'll be joining.
Until then, the last one on that list ceases to exist without the first two being under control, so, that's how I find myself voting.

I see the potential to completely marginalize the Democratic party, by showing their members how financial responsibility and small government gives people the freedom to pursue their own social agenda freely, without demanding that the government step in and make decisions/limits for people. In the same way the Tea Party has changed the GOP, a fiscally conservative, socially libertarian faction can revolutionize the Donkey party.

You want to promote your personal views on birth control? You have every right to do so, but don't ask the government to pass laws. Gather a group of like minded people, raise YOUR OWN money, create a social campaign to convince people your way is the right way. Don't try to legislate your views onto my moral compass.

I went to a few Tea Party meetings in 2010. I'm 110% on board with Tea Party fiscal/small-government conservatism, but I felt completely alienated by the religious justifications that members wanted to make for just about everything. I can easily justify small government and fiscal responsibility with economic facts. Using the Bible to push people into a particular viewpoint is shortsighted and leaves MANY people who would otherwise support you out in the cold, IMO. Religion is most certainly under attack from the Left, and I'm near the front of the line to say the attacks are both wrong headed and eroding the morality of our country. But my justifications are factual, not biblical.

Way OT... Sorry..

Vote for Mitt.!!! :hurry:
A vote for anyone else is a vote for the European-style, big-government, Socialism, because only Mitt can beat Obama. There is no 3rd party candidate in this election that has even a snowballs chance in hades of beating BHO... And that's a fact.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by The Annoyed Man »

RoyGBiv wrote:Fiscally conservative, small government, socially libertarian (not liberal/progressive, libertarian) ....
When somebody with some gravitas starts that party, I'll be joining.
Until then, the last one on that list ceases to exist without the first two being under control, so, that's how I find myself voting.

I see the potential to completely marginalize the Democratic party, by showing their members how financial responsibility and small government gives people the freedom to pursue their own social agenda freely, without demanding that the government step in and make decisions/limits for people. In the same way the Tea Party has changed the GOP, a fiscally conservative, socially libertarian faction can revolutionize the Donkey party.

You want to promote your personal views on birth control? You have every right to do so, but don't ask the government to pass laws. Gather a group of like minded people, raise YOUR OWN money, create a social campaign to convince people your way is the right way. Don't try to legislate your views onto my moral compass.

I went to a few Tea Party meetings in 2010. I'm 110% on board with Tea Party fiscal/small-government conservatism, but I felt completely alienated by the religious justifications that members wanted to make for just about everything. I can easily justify small government and fiscal responsibility with economic facts. Using the Bible to push people into a particular viewpoint is shortsighted and leaves MANY people who would otherwise support you out in the cold, IMO. Religion is most certainly under attack from the Left, and I'm near the front of the line to say the attacks are both wrong headed and eroding the morality of our country. But my justifications are factual, not biblical.

Way OT... Sorry..

Vote for Mitt.!!! :hurry:
A vote for anyone else is a vote for the European-style, big-government, Socialism, because only Mitt can beat Obama. There is no 3rd party candidate in this election that has even a snowballs chance in hades of beating BHO... And that's a fact.
RoyGBiv for president.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by 74novaman »

The Annoyed Man wrote: RoyGBiv for president.
:iagree: He and I come from the same school of thought regarding all of this. :thumbs2:
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by RoyGBiv »

74novaman wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote: RoyGBiv for president.
:iagree: He and I come from the same school of thought regarding all of this. :thumbs2:
If y'all can arrange for me to win the Powerball this week, I promise to spend a chunk of that money to share my/our philosophy with a wider audience.. Maybe even run for something other than the airport parking lot shuttle.... :mrgreen:

Thanks for the positive feedback... Much appreciated.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

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Here's a video that'll make your blood boil.
Democrats BOOING a platform amendment to include God and Jerusalem.

The Democrates, TODAY, amended their platform to include God and Jerusalem.
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/3d281c1 ... 5130d65529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.... Panderers.. Insincere panderers.... Makes me sick.

Video here: Can't embed it..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ntion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ETA Embedded video: Not only did it take multiple votes, but there's loud booing at the end.
What a beautiful disaster for the Donkey party.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=cncbOEoQbOg[/youtube]
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by sjfcontrol »

RoyGBiv wrote:Here's a video that'll make your blood boil.
Democrats BOOING a platform amendment to include God and Jerusalem.

The Democrates, TODAY, amended their platform to include God and Jerusalem.
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/3d281c1 ... 5130d65529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.... Panderers.. Insincere panderers.... Makes me sick.

Video here: Can't embed it..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ntion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ETA Embedded video: Not only did it take multiple votes, but there's loud booing at the end.
What a beautiful disaster for the Donkey party.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=cncbOEoQbOg[/youtube]
Didn't sound like they got the 2/3 vote any of the three times. They just decided to do it anyway.
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by 74novaman »

sjfcontrol wrote:
Didn't sound like they got the 2/3 vote any of the three times. They just decided to do it anyway.
So it passed like the Hughes amendment did? :leaving
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by bizarrenormality »

74novaman wrote:
sjfcontrol wrote:
Didn't sound like they got the 2/3 vote any of the three times. They just decided to do it anyway.
So it passed like the Hughes amendment did? :leaving
"rlol"
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Re: His full Name is: Willard Mitt Romney

Post by RoyGBiv »

Clinton is one of the best orators ever. Facts not withstanding.
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