October 16, Presidential Debate #2

[Teamless]

A vote for anyone else is a throw away vote and will only help the incumbent.

100%
If you dont vote for Mitt, then you ARE voting for Obama

[Jaguar]

Jaguar, you sure said a mouthful, or keyboard full. I find I agree with your observations and Mitt did have a bit of an off night. However, it was no where near as horrendous as bad as the obamanations first debate performance. Unfortunately, these are the two choices we have. A vote for anyone else is a throw away vote and will only help the incumbent. Even with the off night, Mitt is still a far better choice than Barry and doesn't flat out lie like Barry does.

C-dub, It isn't lightly that I made the statements I did, I found it disturbing that Mitt Romney advocated for larger government, high taxes on the wealthy, failed policies such as affirmative action, and did not provide any substance on how to make the federal government run efficiently and within the confines of the Constitution. He had plenty of opportunity and I feel he stated where he stands on the issues, and I found his stance disgusting. I know where Obama stands, and I dislike that even more so, but why should I vote for terrible over horrible?

My worst fear is the end of the U.S. as we know it. My political views were cemented in my mind at the age of seven while standing on a platform looking over the Berlin Wall into East Berlin. I saw barbwire, tank stoppers, armed guards, buildings with holes in them made thirty years earlier which no one would or could fix. I saw freedom on the side I was on, a thriving cityscape that rivaled any in the world, and have cherished that freedom deep in my heart from that day forward. What I saw last night was Romney wanting to continue down the path to ruin, and not a single meaningful word about how to turn this mess around.

I will watch the final debate, and I may change my mind, but as of now the Libertarian Party has my vote. If that means Obama wins and we find ourselves in East Berlin sooner, at least freedom is fresh in the minds of the people and maybe they will have something to really fight for. Today is a sad day for me.

[Teamless]

If that means Obama wins and we find ourselves in East Berlin sooner,

I cannot fault you for following your heart, but your statement above tells me that you agree that a vote for Obama is WORSE than a vote for Romney.
That in itself should make you want to vote for Romney.
However, if you are in Texas, (i didn't look at your profile before I hit reply) then a single vote for the libertarian should not affect the outcome here, but if many do vote Iib rather than rep, that is a whole other issue.

[XDSConcealer]

If that means Obama wins and we find ourselves in East Berlin sooner,

I cannot fault you for following your heart, but your statement above tells me that you agree that a vote for Obama is WORSE than a vote for Romney.
That in itself should make you want to vote for Romney.
However, if you are in Texas, (i didn't look at your profile before I hit reply) then a single vote for the libertarian should not affect the outcome here, but if many do vote Iib rather than rep, that is a whole other issue.

Voting for anyone other than R or D in this race is a throw away vote. Jaguar's stance is not unique as I have a few friends that are voting write-in's because they don't like either choice. This isn't going to help our cause at all. As C-dub put it, a vote for anyone else other than Romney is a vote for Obama. Jaguar, I hope you can sleep at night knowing you're helping Obama win another term and continue to infringe on our freedoms.

[Jaguar]

If that means Obama wins and we find ourselves in East Berlin sooner,

I cannot fault you for following your heart, but your statement above tells me that you agree that a vote for Obama is WORSE than a vote for Romney.
That in itself should make you want to vote for Romney.
However, if you are in Texas, (i didn't look at your profile before I hit reply) then a single vote for the libertarian should not affect the outcome here, but if many do vote Iib rather than rep, that is a whole other issue.

I'm in Texas, just west of Cool.

Obama is worse than Romney in some respects, but in others he isn't. I would rather find the police state here today, with freedom and liberty fresh in the minds of my generation, than for it to come forty or fifty years from now, when my children and grandchildren would have to try to remember my stories or learn from old books what true freedom means.

Does that make sense? I remember Ronald Reagan telling Mikhail Gorbachev to "open this gate, tear down this wall." I had seen the gate closed and the wall in place so I knew what it meant to tear it down. I cried for joy with the German people on November 10, 1989, when they stood on the wall and were granted their freedom. My kids were not born when any of that happened, how could they know what it means?

I do not want violent revolution, I want true and meaningful changes that rein in the federal government and the abuse of powers they are perpetuating on the American people. We cannot be a free bankrupt nation; we cannot be a free police state; we cannot bow to tyrants of the world and be an inspiration to those who find themselves as slaves to a state. I want this nation to return to the past glory we have abandoned in the name of political correctness and security, where if someone fails, other people will help not due to mandates from the government, but from the kindness of their heart. Where if someone succeeds they are not booed and called a cheater, but praised and held up as an example. I don’t want the federal government taking care of people, paying their way in college, paying for their birth control, and deciding what treatment they can have when they are older, I want family, friends, and those with an interest to help out, and I want people to take responsibility for their own actions. If we allow the federal government to continue on its current course there is hope for the future because people know what freedom is, but if they slow it down, make it more gradual, and condition people to make them feel as if this is how it is always supposed to be, there is no hope once we cross the line, as no one will know what freedom is.

I am sad to say I saw Governor Romney last night advocate the slow process, and I see President Obama cheering the masses into the hand basket ready to set sail tomorrow. I do not want violent revolution, but if it comes to that so be it, let's get it over with.

Maybe I am wrong about Governor Romney, maybe he will turn the Titanic around. But last night he proposed we rearrange the deck chairs.

[Jim Beaux]

If that means Obama wins and we find ourselves in East Berlin sooner,

I cannot fault you for following your heart, but your statement above tells me that you agree that a vote for Obama is WORSE than a vote for Romney.
That in itself should make you want to vote for Romney.
However, if you are in Texas, (i didn't look at your profile before I hit reply) then a single vote for the libertarian should not affect the outcome here, but if many do vote Iib rather than rep, that is a whole other issue.

Voting for anyone other than R or D in this race is a throw away vote. Jaguar's stance is not unique as I have a few friends that are voting write-in's because they don't like either choice. This isn't going to help our cause at all. As C-dub put it, a vote for anyone else other than Romney is a vote for Obama. Jaguar, I hope you can sleep at night knowing you're helping Obama win another term and continue to infringe on our freedoms.

I agree. Why waste the time? Staying home and not voting will accomplish the same end. In the grand scheme of things, what changes when voting for a no chance candidate? Nothing. Not one single thing. This type voter is an invalid non entity; his vote of no consequence or significance.

The purpose of a vote is not intended to be used as a protest, but to pursue a tangible result. Dont be a bystander, validate the effort; if one wants his protest noticed, he would accomplish more by becoming an activist and stand on the sidewalk with a sign.

[Jaguar]

I agree. Why waste the time? Staying home and not voting will accomplish the same end. In the grand scheme of things, what changes when voting for a no chance candidate? Nothing. Not one single thing. This type voter is an invalid non entity; his vote of no consequence or significance.

The purpose of a vote is not intended to be used as a protest, but to pursue a tangible result. Dont be a bystander, validate the effort; if one wants his protest noticed, he would accomplish more by becoming an activist and stand on the sidewalk with a sign.

So, you do not want me to vote for Ted Cruz? You belive I have no say in local elections because I pull the "L" lever on the presidental race?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will vote and make my voice heard even if you don't like it. I may not like what you say, I will defend you right to say it.

[snatchel]

I am in agreement with a few of you. In the end, Romney will get my vote. He isn't getting my vote because I like him, or think he is great, or anything like that. He is getting my vote because I hate Obama.

I don't agree with some of Romney's policies--or at least the policies that I understand. I'm so far over this whole tax bracket thing that I get sick when hearing about it. Lets be honest--does anyone really understand the tax bracket system? Maybe it's just me and everyone else does. I can tell you that I wasn't at home in my recliner last night with a TI-83 reasoning it all out. Not that I really think the Prez has a whole lot of say in the matter at the end of the day anyway...

What does the Prez have? Television access, veto power, and the ability to appoint supreme court justices. Romney & Obama both are very good speakers, and if they become President, Americans will listen to them. The average American doesn't do research. They don't fact check. They listen to whatever they hear on the TV and take it for gold. That being the case, i'd rather Romney sit on the news channel spewing right wing rhetoric than see Obama spewing leftist rhetoric. At least Americans will be hearing more conservative talk from Romney-and hopefully he will make the conservative view a little more popular.

Veto power. The President ... if he is a good leader, can have an effect on congress. If he isn't a good leader, he sits at a desk and is nothing more than a step in the process. I think Romney is a better leader than Obama. Will he be able to commit to bipartisan leadership and make things happen? He did do it in Mass, so I have a bit of faith in him. I'd like someone to be sitting in office that will veto ridiculous leftist bills that have been coming through.

Supreme Court Justices. This is where i base 70% of my vote. This is my meat & potatoes. I fear the day that Obama swears in his two choices in SCOTUS appointees. Enough said on this.

Contributing to my vote is the AWB--I don't need to go into detail here either. Obama told us last night he will support it.

Last night as I watched the debate, I realized all over again that i dislike both of these candidates..... but my mind is made. If I must sell my soul to cast a vote, i'd rather sell it to the red.

[Jim Beaux]

I agree. Why waste the time? Staying home and not voting will accomplish the same end. In the grand scheme of things, what changes when voting for a no chance candidate? Nothing. Not one single thing. This type voter is an invalid non entity; his vote of no consequence or significance.

The purpose of a vote is not intended to be used as a protest, but to pursue a tangible result. Dont be a bystander, validate the effort; if one wants his protest noticed, he would accomplish more by becoming an activist and stand on the sidewalk with a sign.

So, you do not want me to vote for Ted Cruz? You belive I have no say in local elections because I pull the "L" lever on the presidental race?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will vote and make my voice heard even if you don't like it. I may not like what you say, I will defend you right to say it.

Twisting what I said doesnt validate your position, and Ted Cruz is not a "no chance" candidate....and for the record, I will stand by those who stand by me. No offense intended, but if you wont defend your rights by making your vote count, you cant depend on me to.

[A-R]

As with most Presidential elections, I won't be voting FOR someone but rather AGAINST someone worse. The best chance to vote AGAINST Obama is to vote FOR Romney, though I don't particularly like him and worry about many of his policies and tendencies.

I was born during the Nixon administration and honestly I don't think there's been a "great" president in my lifetime (including Reagan *flame-suit on* though he was likely best of a subpar group) ... lesser of two evils is simply the way it is until such time as we shed the bi-partisan political system for a truly open election process

[XDSConcealer]

Supreme Court Justices. This is where i base 70% of my vote. This is my meat & potatoes. I fear the day that Obama swears in his two choices in SCOTUS appointees. Enough said on this.

Contributing to my vote is the AWB--I don't need to go into detail here either. Obama told us last night he will support it.

IMHO, we haven't had a definitive candidate since Reagan. We're always stuck with the lesser of the two evils. I too am voting against Obama versus for Romney. But your point above is the biggest reason I want a conservative in the White House. I think we can all agree that in the next four years the President will appoint 1-2 Justices. Can you imagine what the Supreme Court will look like if there are 2 additional liberals on the bench (yes, I know at least one of the Justices is a lib but it sure would be nice for that replacement to be a conservative)? Scary thought to say the least.

Couple on the AWB and there is no way that Obama should be allowed to "lead" for another 4 years. The US as we know it will be thrown off a cliff.

[VMI77]

Jaguar, you sure said a mouthful, or keyboard full. I find I agree with your observations and Mitt did have a bit of an off night. However, it was no where near as horrendous as bad as the obamanations first debate performance. Unfortunately, these are the two choices we have. A vote for anyone else is a throw away vote and will only help the incumbent. Even with the off night, Mitt is still a far better choice than Barry and doesn't flat out lie like Barry does.

C-dub, It isn't lightly that I made the statements I did, I found it disturbing that Mitt Romney advocated for larger government, high taxes on the wealthy, failed policies such as affirmative action, and did not provide any substance on how to make the federal government run efficiently and within the confines of the Constitution. He had plenty of opportunity and I feel he stated where he stands on the issues, and I found his stance disgusting. I know where Obama stands, and I dislike that even more so, but why should I vote for terrible over horrible?

My worst fear is the end of the U.S. as we know it. My political views were cemented in my mind at the age of seven while standing on a platform looking over the Berlin Wall into East Berlin. I saw barbwire, tank stoppers, armed guards, buildings with holes in them made thirty years earlier which no one would or could fix. I saw freedom on the side I was on, a thriving cityscape that rivaled any in the world, and have cherished that freedom deep in my heart from that day forward. What I saw last night was Romney wanting to continue down the path to ruin, and not a single meaningful word about how to turn this mess around.

I will watch the final debate, and I may change my mind, but as of now the Libertarian Party has my vote. If that means Obama wins and we find ourselves in East Berlin sooner, at least freedom is fresh in the minds of the people and maybe they will have something to really fight for. Today is a sad day for me.

Unfortunately, the Libertarian Party no longer actually runs libertarian candidates. When it comes to economics, Johnson is barely distinguishable from Romney.

Fiscal record: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3019136

His "libertarianism": http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3035914

Positions: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2963347

And David Stockman on Romney: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... drain.html

[Jaguar]

I agree. Why waste the time? Staying home and not voting will accomplish the same end. In the grand scheme of things, what changes when voting for a no chance candidate? Nothing. Not one single thing. This type voter is an invalid non entity; his vote of no consequence or significance.

The purpose of a vote is not intended to be used as a protest, but to pursue a tangible result. Dont be a bystander, validate the effort; if one wants his protest noticed, he would accomplish more by becoming an activist and stand on the sidewalk with a sign.

So, you do not want me to vote for Ted Cruz? You believe I have no say in local elections because I pull the "L" lever on the presidential race?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will vote and make my voice heard even if you don't like it. I may not like what you say, I will defend you right to say it.

Twisting what I said doesnt validate your position, and Ted Cruz is not a "no chance" candidate....and for the record, I will stand by those who stand by me. No offense intended, but if you wont defend your rights by making your vote count, you cant depend on me to.

I don’t believe I twisted anything you said. I won’t vote Romney due to the specifics he laid out in the debate last night, not because I believe he is as bad as Obama. That seemed to trigger a “just don’t vote” response, which I take issue with. Sure, maybe my vote for the top of the ticket is only a protest, but that doesn’t nullify (I hope) my choice for State Senator, or U.S Representative or County Tax Assessor-Collector.

There are other local elections that my vote counts for and I typically vote for the conservative candidate. But if someone I am looking at voting for states they are for intrusive government, taking money and giving it to people for student financial aid and green energy, want to tax the rich disproportionately, are believers in affirmative action, etc., then I won’t be giving them my vote. And if, as a fellow Texan and I presume conservative minded person, you won’t defend my right to vote my conscience, we are all in worse trouble than I thought.

[Jaguar]

Unfortunately, the Libertarian Party no longer actually runs libertarian candidates. When it comes to economics, Johnson is barely distinguishable from Romney.

Fiscal record: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3019136

His "libertarianism": http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3035914

Positions: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2963347

And David Stockman on Romney: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... drain.html

I agree, he is not a true Libertarian. I have said it before and will say it again, the (capital L) Libertarian Party is not what will save the U.S., but (lower case l) libertarian ideas may.

[newTexan]

Just my $0.02 on the whole thing. I watched the debate;I watch all the debates. I thought Obama won on points, but Romney did a good job highlighting Obama's indefensible record on the economy. To me, the CNN poll ...that said Obama won 46% to 39%, and yet people were even 25% to 25% on who they had been motivated to vote for... was telling. If you win the debate by that many points, but you break even in the actual vote-winning, then all your style and eloquence isn't helping cover your record.

I will do what I've always done and vote a split ticket. Some L some R some D. I try to vote for the person, understand the local races not just the top ones, and give my vote to the person who looks out for my interests. At the top, frankly, I'm not happy with anyone. That being said, I'll vote for Romeny for two reasons..

1) He has a different idea and perspective on how to deal with the economy. I'm not an economist, and I can't tell you if his idea will work, but I believe that Obama's ideas haven't worked and more of the same isn't going to get it done.

2) He's willing to compromise and work with everyone. I genuinely get that feeling from him, and a little statesmanship is sorely lacking right now.

oh and 3) Romney correctly knew that automatic weapons are already not flooding our streets.....