Can America Handle the truth?

[mamabearCali]

I assume all the pro-lifers are as vehemently against Capital Punishment?

Really? You see no difference between taking the life of an innocent, as yet unborn baby, and removing from society somebody that has exhibited an uncaring and murderous attitude toward the rest of society?

Well I was going to say something, but sjfcontrol you have said it quite succinctly.

[baldeagle]

I assume all the pro-lifers are as vehemently against Capital Punishment?

There you go. Moral equivalence rears its ugly head. The infection has spread throughout the populace.

Saving the life of an unborn child is equivalent to saving the life of any other innocent being. Executing murderers is equivalent to executing abortion providers. See the difference?

[talltex]

Saving the life of an unborn child is equivalent to saving the life of any other innocent being. Executing murderers is equivalent to executing abortion providers. See the difference?

Whoooaaa....do you actually believe what you just wrote...That killing a Doctor or Nurse that works at a medical clinic which provides abortion services is equivalent to the state executing a convicted murderer? THAT is scary!

[urnoodle]

Unfortunately, if anyone believes making abortion illegal will stop them, then your are mistaken. Those that are most commonly in need of an abortion are teens and they will find an alternative solution and it will likely be dangerous. A teen girl would be easily hoodwinked by someone in a white coat using a storage unit as an surgical room. Maybe you're thinking this isn't the 1950's and we are past that type of backroom surgery but that very thing is happening today with plastic surgery. I've heard many parents say, "I know my child and my child wouldn't do that" but yet they seem dumbfounded when their child overdoses on drugs or ends up in jail. Good communication with a child doesn't guarantee that he or she will always go to the parent when in trouble. Teens do not think rationally in a crisis nor do they think about consequences. If I were a parent I'd want my daughter to have access to proper medical care. Anything less may result in 2 lives lost. I don't agree with abortion there are alternatives far better for the baby and better for the mother. There are many great parents in the making longing for a child. The constitution states life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty isn't only granted when one's decision is reasonable. I don't want anyone making decisions about what I do with my body especially when the one making them doesn't know the road I traveled. The unborn is part of the mother's body. Additionally, the argument that society is at a disadvantage because we did not benefit from the accomplishments of these children is hogwash to me. These same children may have been burden to society. I choose to believe they had the potential to be great contributors but the truth is no one will ever know. Is it sad? Absolutely.

[Heartland Patriot]

Unfortunately, if anyone believes making abortion illegal will stop them, then your are mistaken. Those that are most commonly in need of an abortion are teens and they will find an alternative solution and it will likely be dangerous. A teen girl would be easily hoodwinked by someone in a white coat using a storage unit as an surgical room. Maybe you're thinking this isn't the 1950's and we are past that type of backroom surgery but that very thing is happening today with plastic surgery. I've heard many parents say, "I know my child and my child wouldn't do that" but yet they seem dumbfounded when their child overdoses on drugs or ends up in jail. Good communication with a child doesn't guarantee that he or she will always go to the parent when in trouble. Teens do not think rationally in a crisis nor do they think about consequences. If I were a parent I'd want my daughter to have access to proper medical care. Anything less may result in 2 lives lost. I don't agree with abortion there are alternatives far better for the baby and better for the mother. There are many great parents in the making longing for a child. The constitution states life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty isn't only granted when one's decision is reasonable. I don't want anyone making decisions about what I do with my body especially when the one making them doesn't know the road I traveled. The unborn is part of the mother's body. Additionally, the argument that society is at a disadvantage because we did not benefit from the accomplishments of these children is hogwash to me. These same children may have been burden to society. I choose to believe they had the potential to be great contributors but the truth is no one will ever know. Is it sad? Absolutely.

Do what you want to...I can't stop you...I just don't want to be forced to pay for it.

[sjfcontrol]

Unfortunately, if anyone believes making abortion illegal will stop them, then your are mistaken. Those that are most commonly in need of an abortion are teens and they will find an alternative solution and it will likely be dangerous. A teen girl would be easily hoodwinked by someone in a white coat using a storage unit as an surgical room. Maybe you're thinking this isn't the 1950's and we are past that type of backroom surgery but that very thing is happening today with plastic surgery. I've heard many parents say, "I know my child and my child wouldn't do that" but yet they seem dumbfounded when their child overdoses on drugs or ends up in jail. Good communication with a child doesn't guarantee that he or she will always go to the parent when in trouble. Teens do not think rationally in a crisis nor do they think about consequences. If I were a parent I'd want my daughter to have access to proper medical care. Anything less may result in 2 lives lost. I don't agree with abortion there are alternatives far better for the baby and better for the mother. There are many great parents in the making longing for a child. The constitution states life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty isn't only granted when one's decision is reasonable. I don't want anyone making decisions about what I do with my body especially when the one making them doesn't know the road I traveled. The unborn is part of the mother's body. Additionally, the argument that society is at a disadvantage because we did not benefit from the accomplishments of these children is hogwash to me. These same children may have been burden to society. I choose to believe they had the potential to be great contributors but the truth is no one will ever know. Is it sad? Absolutely.

Hmm, so passing laws against an activity, won't stop that activity. And therefore we shouldn't have those laws? How does that not apply to ANY law. Also, when quoting the "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" part of the Declaration of Independence (not the constitution), please note that the FIRST item in the list is "Life". Without life, the other two "unalienable rights" are irrelevant.

[pbwalker]

I assume all the pro-lifers are as vehemently against Capital Punishment?

Really? You see no difference between taking the life of an innocent, as yet unborn baby, and removing from society somebody that has exhibited an uncaring and murderous attitude toward the rest of society?

Well I was going to say something, but sjfcontrol you have said it quite succinctly.

So you folks are not actually pro-life, you are just anti-abortion?

[pbwalker]

Saving the life of an unborn child is equivalent to saving the life of any other innocent being. Executing murderers is equivalent to executing abortion providers. See the difference?

Whoooaaa....do you actually believe what you just wrote...That killing a Doctor or Nurse that works at a medical clinic which provides abortion services is equivalent to the state executing a convicted murderer? THAT is scary!

It's amazing to see the hypocrisy in a large population of the gun community when it comes this. "The government should't tell us what kind go of guns we can shoot or own. They just need to leave us alone and stay out of our lives! Oh, except for women...we need the government intruding in their lives. It's for the children..."

Let the record show, I think it's disgusting, but unless it directly affects me, I am not going to concern myself with it. I am not one of "gods warriors" or soldiers from those story books, and I am not going to get the laws changed...nor are you.

[sjfcontrol]

I assume all the pro-lifers are as vehemently against Capital Punishment?

Really? You see no difference between taking the life of an innocent, as yet unborn baby, and removing from society somebody that has exhibited an uncaring and murderous attitude toward the rest of society?

Well I was going to say something, but sjfcontrol you have said it quite succinctly.

So you folks are not actually pro-life, you are just anti-abortion?

I can't speak for "you folks", but personally I am against the taking of innocent life. I also believe that a person can earn themselves removal from society by their actions.

[urnoodle]

Hmm, so passing laws against an activity, won't stop that activity. And therefore we shouldn't have those laws? How does that not apply to ANY law. Also, when quoting the "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" part of the Declaration of Independence (not the constitution), please note that the FIRST item in the list is "Life". Without life, the other two "unalienable rights" are irrelevant.

Yes you are correct it is in the declaration. It was late when I wrote it. I should have read through it more carefully before I submitted it. You don't like my opinion so you twist what I say. What I said was pass a law against it, then you will push the practice underground where more than 1 life will be at jeopardy. I'm not saying this is an easy issue to decide. As I see it both sides jeopardize a life.

Correction: Constitution..."Secure the blessings of liberty"

[Maxwell]

Like a lot of things, I believe the abortion issue is one of those that the government needs to stay out of completely. The decision and any moral consequences rests with those directly involved. I do hope that I never have to be in a position to be involved in needing to make that choice, but I do strongly believe that if I am no one else should be allowed to arbitrarily make that choice for us.

I am not pro-life.
I am not pro-abortion.
I am pro-keep-the-government-out-of my-personal-life.

I have suffered the benefits and consequences of my decisons before, but good or bad it WAS MY DECISION TO MAKE!

That said I will also defend to my death the rights of anyone and everyone who disgrees with me to voice their own opinion, just don't force it on me as my own.

[stroo]

by pbwalker » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:36 am
It's amazing to see the hypocrisy in a large population of the gun community when it comes this. "The government should't tell us what kind go of guns we can shoot or own. They just need to leave us alone and stay out of our lives! Oh, except for women...we need the government intruding in their lives. It's for the children..."

Actually my position is very consistent and is not at all hypocritical. The 2nd Amendment was based in part on the underlying right to self defense, i.e. protecting innocent life. That is very pro-life.
My anti-abortion stance is based on protecting the lives of the most innocent among us. Again pro-life.
And my support for the death penalty is based on taking dangerous people out of society and to deter others who would also engage in murder. Thus the death penalty protects innocent life. So again pro-life.
And my support for small government and capitalism is that both produce much better economics for far more of the population than do big government and socialism. Again in my view pro-life.

The problem with many libertarians is that they see only one principle as valid, that being that their personal liberty rises above all. Sorry, I don't buy that.

[stroo]

BTW, there were far fewer abortions prior to Roe. One of the functions of the law particularly in our society is to tell people that an activity is morally wrong. Usually just making an activity illegal reduces that activity even if not vigorously enforced.

[baldeagle]

Saving the life of an unborn child is equivalent to saving the life of any other innocent being. Executing murderers is equivalent to executing abortion providers. See the difference?

Whoooaaa....do you actually believe what you just wrote...That killing a Doctor or Nurse that works at a medical clinic which provides abortion services is equivalent to the state executing a convicted murderer? THAT is scary!

Well, perhaps you need to think about it for a while. Note that I am *not* advocating for the execution of abortion providers. I am simply saying that there is NO moral ambiguity about being both pro-life and pro-captial punishment. Both honor life. Being pro-abortion does not honor life, and neither does being anti-capital punishment.

[Keith B]

BTW, there were far fewer REPORTED abortions prior to Roe. One of the functions of the law particularly in our society is to tell people that an activity is morally wrong. Usually just making an activity illegal reduces that activity even if not vigorously enforced.

I fixed it for you. There were illegal ones performed, many by back alley 'clinic', and even some by competent physicians, they just weren't reported because they were illegal. Not so long ago (before the mid-60's) in many states it was illegal for a woman to have her tubes tied, and birth control pills were also illegal. However, I know of many women who had it done by a doctor or got pills illegally. Times have changed and so have the needs.

I don't condone the abortion of a healthy fetus, or being done electively for no other reason than terminating the pregnancy, but I do believe there are times it is necessary and prudent for the life and health of the mother.