gradual erosion of freedom

[VMI77]

I was just curious if you knew more about the law there, as what I've heard from Brits on various sites gives me an incomplete picture. OTOH, you can buy silencers in the UK with no hassle.

I actually tried to look up Ireland's firearms laws before answering your question. They are quite the crazy-quilt. Generally they copy the U.K., but sometimes they "liberalize" some aspect and sometimes they clamp down harder. They have grandfathered some possession that is otherwise illegal now.

This is another point relevant to the present discussion. Many countries have obscure laws that are subject to interpretation by unelected magistrates, which boil down to the government being able to throw anyone in jail for an offense that no one can explain in plain language.

The U.S. is nuts about silencers. In most European countries they are legal and sometimes required for hunting. That is after the owner goes through extensive background checks for buying a firearm in the first place, as I mentioned upthread.

OTOH, in those countries possessing ammunition or any part of a firearm without a license is a serious offense. Some treat airguns, BB guns, and bows and arrows like firearms.

- Jim

I would say that all of those countries are collectivist countries that make socioeconomic class a primary factor in evaluating conduct rather than the conduct itself. Personal responsibility is actually punished in various ways, and the ideological imperatives of collectivism make it essential to eliminate any right or means of self-defense. You see it here too, though to a much lesser extent and mostly in the Blue states, but it's seeping in everywhere. However, even after several decades of the denigration of individual responsibility and notions of self-defense by the left, the right of self-defense is still rather deeply ingrained in the American culture and will be much harder to uproot than it has been in Europe and other former British colonies.

[seamusTX]

All the European countries except Switzerland have been monarchies or provinces of monarchies (like Ireland) for over a thousand years. Deference to authority is pretty well ingrained there.

Ireland has a fascinating history in terms of being ruled from Westminster (that is, the British Parliament) and having a violent revolution and civil war that barely ended in the 1990s. Many books have been written about it.

All these countries have signed onto a socialistic, paternalistic model of government. They are all democracies now. Those that have kings and queens could tell them to take a hike (as Italy Greece did). They are doing what the majority wants, the way they want it, with the usual amount of grumbling.

The U.S. is about the last bastion of the old English common law rights of possession of arms and self-defense. The U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa are all down the tubes.

BTW, any American from the year 1800 would be flabbergasted what we can't legally carry swords now. Why is that? Are sword attacks that big a problem?

- Jim

[OldCannon]

And before anybody gets their undies in a wad, the Israeli profiling methodology is far more sophisticated than "oh, he's got dark skin, a towel on his head, and a bindi on his forehead....do a body cavity search on him." Not at all. Their profiling methods are much more subtle and in-depth than that, and are based more on observable psychometrics rather than skin color or manner of dress. AND.........they are very, VERY successful, all while being far more respectful of the traveling public. WHY aren't we using their methods? Do we not deserve better for our tax money?

We do. However, I'm wholly convinced that the average IQ of an Israeli security person is 80 points higher than the average TSA person. I'm not even sure the average TSA "security person" could _spell_ psychometrics, much less be taught it.

[OldCannon]

My understanding is that the UK allows semi-autos of just about any magazine capacity in .22 rimfire.

Let me say it again...



The laws are so bad there that the British Olympic pistol squad has to practice abroad. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... 162498.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[VMI77]

My understanding is that the UK allows semi-autos of just about any magazine capacity in .22 rimfire.

Let me say it again...



The laws are so bad there that the British Olympic pistol squad has to practice abroad. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... 162498.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Because all handguns are banned.....and yes, the laws are bad, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_polit ... dom#Rifles

UK law defines a "rifle" as a rifled firearm with a barrel longer than 30 cm, and a total length longer than 60 cm that does not fall under the classification of long-barrelled revolver or pistol. Single-shot, bolt-action, Martini-action, lever-action (also called under-lever action) and revolver rifles and carbines are permitted, with certificate, in any calibre. Self-loading (also known as semi-automatic) or pump-action rifles are only permitted in .22 rimfire calibre.

Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom where personal protection is accepted as a legitimate reason to obtain and own a firearm and is the only part of the United Kingdom where handguns and semi-automatic firearms are permitted. Also, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed without a permit.

This thread has numerous responses from people in Britain about what guns they can own: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 23798.html

And if you look at this UK website you see that a number of people own Ruger 10/22's. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/to ... n-or-semi/

But the real problem in Britain isn't their ridiculous gun restrictions, it their culture, and the collectivist anti-self-defense attitudes that permeate the country. Gun control proceeded from the limitation and the eventual elimination of the right to self-defense. Shotguns are prevalent there, but if you use one on a thug, in self-defense, you're going to prison, not the thug who broke into your home and attacked you. If you look around at the UK gun website above you'll see that even gun owners there ridicule people who express an interest in things like a "tactical" .22. As above, only the Irish still believe in self-defense, so, it doesn't really do you much good to have a gun in the UK unless you're in NI...what you really need there is the discipline to accept your fate at the hands of thugs: beating, murder, rape...whatever, because apparently, a thug's life is more valuable than the life of an ordinary citizen, and defending yourself may well mean spending the rest of your life in prison.

Note, that as the Wiki article points out, by the time the UK got around to banning handguns there were only around 30,000 of them....owned by something like 0.1% of the population. So, Brits had given up on any notions of self-defense long before the most restrictive prohibitions were enacted. And obviously,it's not so hard to pass a law that only effects 0.1% of the population. And that's why the collectivists push hard whenever they can exploit a questionable claim that a gun was used in self-defense and SYG laws --it's the notion of self-defense they're attacking most of all. You never see them in attack mode when it's a sympathetic clear cut case of self-defense because that undermines their agenda.

[seamusTX]

Shotguns are prevalent [in the U.K.], but if you use one on a thug, in self-defense, you're going to prison, not the thug who broke into your home and attacked you.

That's true, but it's worse than that. A law-abiding citizen who hits a robber over the head with a cricket bat or a sock filled with coins (a favorite weapon in Chicago when I was a kid) will be in jail longer than the robber.

I spent a lot of time in England. I basically like the place and the people. But the higher levels of government are smoking something that should be illegal, and they get voted into power time after time. Every party that stands a chance at holding power in the U.K. would be considered leftist and/or socialist by members of this forum.

I always ask, "What can we learn from this?" The U.K. is lost in this respect. We just have to dig in our heels and resist it here, because there isn't anywhere else to go.

- Jim

[OldCannon]

I always ask, "What can we learn from this?" The U.K. is lost in this respect. We just have to dig in our heels and resist it here, because there isn't anywhere else to go.

- Jim

Of course, most Britons regard our love affair with guns as quite barbaric. It's all about perspective.

(Counterpoint: Most Britons I know here in the US greatly appreciate our love for guns and the right of self-defense)

[philip964]

http://www.ktrh.com/pages/michaelberry. ... e=10607950" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A restaurant offered a 10% discount on Sunday if you brought in a church bulletin. The government has ordered them to stop the program or offer the discount to everyone. A complaint was filed by an atheist naturally.

[VMI77]

I always ask, "What can we learn from this?" The U.K. is lost in this respect. We just have to dig in our heels and resist it here, because there isn't anywhere else to go.

- Jim

Of course, most Britons regard our love affair with guns as quite barbaric. It's all about perspective.

(Counterpoint: Most Britons I know here in the US greatly appreciate our love for guns and the right of self-defense)

Of course, they've been indoctrinated to believe such nonsense. Decades of the Nanny State have imbued many Brits with a childlike naivete.This country has created quite a few adult children too, and is working hard to create more. Without guns there is no civilization.

[philip964]

A U. S. Representative of Congress has called for a constitutional amendment limiting free speech.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2012/11/30/ ... of-speech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two guesses as to which party he is aligned with.

[sjfcontrol]

A U. S. Representative of Congress has called for a constitutional amendment limiting free speech.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2012/11/30/ ... of-speech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two guesses as to which party he is aligned with.

Its Hank Johnson -- the same nutjob that was afraid that adding a few thousand people to Guam would cause the island to tip over and capsize.

Rep. Hank Johnson, a Georgia Democrat, asked if adding a few thousand people to Guam would make the island "become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize." And then the video appeared online.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20001611-38.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[philip964]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/hs-prin ... hold-hands" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Principal requires two young men to hold hands.

Sometimes school is the least free place there is, how ever I never though a government authority would ever require homosexuality.

[philip964]

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/20272001/j ... e-vanishes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

State of New Jersey demolishes standing house and throws away all possessions. Without notice or opportunity to retrieve possessions.

[philip964]

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_221339 ... ex-newhall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Senior's Christmas tree banned from complex by management company because it is religious. Jesus often spoke of the importance of having a Christmas tree to honor his birthday.

[philip964]

http://www.dailymail.com/static/pledge/ ... 181-a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Student were required to stand during the African-American National Anthem. It has since been changed. Now they can stand or sit while it is played. Schools seem to be at the front lines of this lack of freedom band wagon.