Traveling without CHL

[Huff9337]

I may have over looked this some where else.
Does the law state that you can have a weapon in your car when traveling. What is traveling? Am I traveling when I go to work or the Mall? I live in one county and work and shop in another County. Would appreicate some clarification on this subject..
Thanks

[TIN BENDER]

HUFF, I'm looking forward to

these answers too. As I understand,

there are lots of GREY areas here.

BIG OL' CAN O' WORMS HERE.

But you came to the right place for answers !

Good Luck !

[stevie_d_64]

First off...

If carrying a firearm is that important, and if you can wrap around the investment in time and cost of obtaining one (CHL), this issue would obviously be moot...Not too many worries after that...

Second...

As I understand it back in 2005 we had legislation which passed into law that allowed unlicenced carry in a vehicle which removed some of the ambiguity in the "traveling" law at that time...

The trick was what happens when and if you have to use it, because once you step out of the car, bingo...You are UCW, minus all of the philisophical, legal and other factors in what could be a credible self-defence action, and an illegal one...But all of that is another discussion...

There are several DA's around the state that decided to openly defy this 2005 clarification in the law, and just now in this 2007 session, we have that Motorist Protection Act of 2007 (HB 1815) that is due to be voted on this week I believe...This bill should clarify even more for these DA's and other entities that have a burr under their saddles about the whole concept of non CHL, or general public carrying of a firearm in their vehicles pretty much at anytime...Traveling or not traveling...

But all of this is just my understanding of what is going on...

Like I said...The real solution to this is to just get your CHL, and follw those guidelines and you should be better off...I bet the State would love the surge of apps and revenue coming in anyway...

[KRM45]

I may have over looked this some where else.
Does the law state that you can have a weapon in your car when traveling. What is traveling?

Here is some excepts from the law:

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.


§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
...

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

...

(3) is traveling;

Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4

...

(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed
to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

Text of subsec. (i) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 976, § 4

Basically, as long as you meet 1-5 above you should not face any charges of UCW. As was suggested before however a CHL is probably a safer route.

For more information on the Penal Code, see this link:

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/petoc.html

Chapter 46 deals with weapons offenses.

[Huff9337]

Thanks for the info.
I will try to start the classes that must be taken this coming week.
Looks like they would accept my Tennessee permit. After paying required fees.
Again I will get the CHL process started as soon as possible.

[Greybeard]

What was said above about pending legislation. For more background, see many prior posts on the subject on this forum and/or "Above the Law" (last time I checked, still on home page) at http://www.tsra.com.

Bottom line is the cleanest way is just get CHL.

[razoraggie]

First off...

If carrying a firearm is that important, and if you can wrap around the investment in time and cost of obtaining one (CHL), this issue would obviously be moot...Not too many worries after that...

100%, TOTALLY, WITHOUT A DOUBT

[txinvestigator]

I may have over looked this some where else.
Does the law state that you can have a weapon in your car when traveling. What is traveling?

Here is some excepts from the law:

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.


§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:

...

(3) is traveling;

Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4

...

(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed
to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

Text of subsec. (i) as added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 976, § 4

Basically, as long as you meet 1-5 above you should not face any charges of UCW. As was suggested before however a CHL is probably a safer route.

For more information on the Penal Code, see this link:

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/petoc.html

Chapter 46 deals with weapons offenses.

PLEASE NOTE; You miss edited. The non-applicability sections you listed do not apply to 46.03 AT ALL. Only 46.02 is non-applicable.

[srothstein]

A brief history of this is that it has been illegal for the average citizen in Texas to carry a pistol since about 1880. And for just that long, there was an exception for people who were traveling. The exact wording of whether it was an exception, or just the law was non-applicable has changed once or twice to, but the key part is that the law has always just said "traveling" and never defined it. There have been many different legal cases on this, and the pre-eminent case is where the Court of Criminal Appeals said that the legislature should change the law but until it does, traveling is a fact to be determined by the jury (or judge if no jury). Some of the cases tried to argue that a person wasn't traveling unless certain conditions were met, such as over one county or two county lines, a set distance, a route not normally traveled, overnight stay, and similar things.

Until 2005, it has been left as a fact for a jury to define. In 2005, the legislature added a section that said that if you are in a private car and met a few other minor conditions, then you are presumed to be traveling. The intent of this was to allow you to carry a weapon in your car while commuting to and from work, but it did not achieve this result. The reason it did not achieve the result is that it only created a presumption, and presumptions are rebutable in court. So, if a cop wanted to arrest you he could, and the DA might still prosecute. Several DA's have told the officers in their area to do just that, presumably in an attempt to discourage people from driving around while armed. You might win, and I think you would win in court, but it was still an arrest and an expensive process to fight.

The good news is that there is a change in the works to make it legal to carry a gun in YOUR car. This change is going through the legislature right now and looks like it stands a pretty good chance of passing (I think). The bad news is that this would let you carry a gun in your car, but if you get in my car, you would still be breaking the law. It is a step in the right direction though, and we can expect more changes in the future (I hope).

Overall, I think the best advice would be to get a CHL, as others have posted. This way, you could have it in the mall with you, instead of in the car where it does you no good if you need it.

[KRM45]

PLEASE NOTE; You miss edited. The non-applicability sections you listed do not apply to 46.03 AT ALL. Only 46.02 is non-applicable.

FWIW I didn't edit, I just cut and pasted. Of course I should have pasted only (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

I'll fix it.

[trainee]

what if the firearm is locked in your trunk as opposed to in the passenger part of the car? Is that still a problem

[Liberty]

what if the firearm is locked in your trunk as opposed to in the passenger part of the car? Is that still a problem

Its not a problem unless you're gonna need it in a hurry.

[txinvestigator]

what if the firearm is locked in your trunk as opposed to in the passenger part of the car? Is that still a problem

It is not illegal in Texas.

[frankie_the_yankee]

what if the firearm is locked in your trunk as opposed to in the passenger part of the car? Is that still a problem

It is not illegal in Texas.

When I was living in RI and holding a RI CHL I made a weeklong business trip to Austin. Intending to bring a pistol with me for recreation, and knowing that TX did not have CHL at the time, I called Austin PD and asked them what the law was for possessing and transporting handguns.

The officer I spoke to said that it was legal as long as the gun was unloaded, locked in a case in the trunk of the car, and that I was headed directly to or from the airport, hotel, or shooting range.

Ironically enough, this was almost exactly what was allowed under RI law at the time.

I took this as good advice and followed it during my stay in TX.

But later on, I could find nothing in TX law that distinguished between loaded guns, unloaded guns, guns in cases, guns in the trunk, or in the passenger compartment. The only thing I could find was that it was OK to have a gun (a handgun), loaded or not, "while travelling".

At this point, I'm curious as to the legal status of a non-CHL holder who is taking a gun to a nearby range, or friend's ranch, to go shooting.

Is this person "travelling", or are they breaking the law? Assume it's in Tarrant County, where the DA instructs officers to arrest non-CHL's and let the court sort out whether the "presumption" of travelling under the law is valid in a given case.

What's your take on it?

[seamusTX]

But later on, I could find nothing in TX law that distinguished between loaded guns, unloaded guns, guns in cases, guns in the trunk, or in the passenger compartment. The only thing I could find was that it was OK to have a gun (a handgun), loaded or not, "while travelling".

The key to violating or not violating PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS is the phrase "on or about his person." That generally allows you to carry a handgun in the trunk of your car or a locked toolbox in a pickup truck.

You're right about the loaded, unloaded, etc., part. It makes no difference (unlike some other states).

In PC §46.15, the offense of UCW does not apply to someone who

(3) is traveling;
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity
on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is
directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the
weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Those are the exceptions most often applied to people who are not LEOs, security guards, etc.

- Jim