Qualification with laser sights?

[grumble]

Saw a segment on Fox4DFW this morning with a group of teachers doing their CHL qualification. As the camera panned the targets downrange, you could see one of the targets being painted by a laser. I thought lasers weren't allowed to be turned on during qualification.

[gdanaher]

I saw the segment but didn't notice the laser. I believe you are correct. My wife has a laser on her carry, and qualification, weapon, and when it came time to test, she was told not to turn it on.

[The Annoyed Man]

You know what, this is one I can't get worked up over. My guess is that many of the teachers who agree to do this are not regular handgun shooters, let alone having EVER shot a handgun before this. They're going to be called to use their guns in an environment with children all over the place. If using a laser helps them to have the confidence that they can hit what they're shooting at without collateral damage, then I'm all for it.

These people are being rushed into the gap, and like any raw recruit being hurried to the front lines with insufficient training, any equipment which gives them an advantage is a good thing. Once they have developed their shooting skills over time, they can wean themselves off the laser if they want to. Personally, I can't stand the things. We own one pistol with CT grips, and they stay turned off at all times. But I know that others like them and find them useful. If a total n00b's confidence gets boosted by means of a laser, then that's what it takes, and God bless them for being willing.

[Keith B]

Laser sights are not allowed to be used during CHL qualification. We require our students to turn them off or we will put a piece of tape over them if they are the ones with no manual on/off switch.

[grumble]

You know what, this is one I can't get worked up over.

Heh I wasn't getting worked up, it just seemed out of the norm to see a target being painted in that context.

Totally agree with you, TAM on each point. I give these teachers much credit for getting out there and trying to be proactive so that if policies change, they are comfortable.

[Jim88]

I'm not going to mention any names since I know the person who taught my class is a member of this forum but he told us that laser sights are allowed. This person has been teaching for many years and really seems to know his stuff so for those who disagree, I would be curious to see it in writing just so I can read it for myself.

[Jumping Frog]

I'm not going to mention any names since I know the person who taught my class is a member of this forum but he told us that laser sights are allowed. This person has been teaching for many years and really seems to know his stuff so for those who disagree, I would be curious to see it in writing just so I can read it for myself.

It is in writing, just don't have time to do your research for you.

"Search" is your friend.

[TexasGal]

I saw the same thing and was surprised. Lasers are a definite no no. The DPS Instructors made that very clear.

[G26ster]

I saw the report on the news. First, I recall the instructor saying that classes would not start until next month (Feb.) Secondly, although there was a fellow from a school district there being interviewed, it was not clear to me that this was a CHL qualification for school employees taking place. Sure there were shooters there and an instructor, but that doesn't mean it was a practical test. Based on what the instructor said about classes starting in feb., I got the impression that it was a basic handgun training class and not a CHL practical test. I could be wrong.

[Keith B]

The government code states that teh proficiency test for students will be the same as instructors. For the instructor proficiency it states in the rules 'no optical enhancers'. DPS will not let instructors use scopes, optical or laser sights when qualifying and mentioned it in the instructor class. We had a student in my class that had to borrow a semi-auto from another student because he had brought his race gun with optical sights mounted on it to qualify with. DPS said

[Ark03]

I remember a previous thread with the rules cited:

Texas Administrative Code Chapter 6:
Rule 6.11(a) wrote:The proficiency demonstration course will be the same for both instructors and license applications...
Rule 6.73 wrote:...No optical enhancers will be allowed.

[goose]

(Realizing this was probably a training class vs qualification. Following along with TAM's thoughts.) Being married to a teacher I have vast, vast amounts of sympathy for them. My only issue with lasers is the dang battery. I would not be disappointed if teachers were allowed or even encouraged to use lasers provided there was good battery management. If a person is fearing for the lives of the children in their care one more cause for panic, in an already tense situation, could be introduced if plan A is a red/green dot on the handle to the classroom door and then that laser doesn't power up. There isn't a clean answer for me on this one but I would hope lots of time was spent on battery management if this were to become their regular practice/habit.

[Ark03]

In my opinion, the shooting test is ridiculously easy, and a laser isn't going to make or break anyone. The lady next to me in my test looked like she had never held a gun before, missed paper with her first several shots (at 3 yards), and still managed to pass. I don't see how a laser would change anything - the requirements to pass the test are already a joke.

However, I do see the argument for no lasers - it's analogous to giving a kid a calculator when he is first learning to add. It will teach the kid to punch buttons, not necessarily to add. Similarly, a laser will teach a shooter to put the laser on the target, not to line up a site picture with a target - a subtle, but substantial difference, which I think is important for everyone to learn, whether they are a soldier in basic training, a 7-year-old shooting with his dad, or a teacher (for all my opinion is worth ).

[Dragonfighter]

I thought the caveat with teachers carrying was that they had a CHL and were to undergo additional training. The glimpse I caught on the news seemed like the latter. If my carry weapon had a laser, I'd darn sure practice with and without and hope that when the time came it was "with".

[G26ster]

However, I do see the argument for no lasers - it's analogous to giving a kid a calculator when he is first learning to add. It will teach the kid to punch buttons, not necessarily to add. Similarly, a laser will teach a shooter to put the laser on the target, not to line up a site picture with a target - a subtle, but substantial difference, which I think is important for everyone to learn, whether they are a soldier in basic training, a 7-year-old shooting with his dad, or a teacher (for all my opinion is worth ).

I'll disagree to this extent, and which opinion is worth more is anybody's guess . First, a laser dot on a target IS a sight picture. No different than a sight picture with a red dot sight or other reflex sight IMHO. Second, the shooting test is a test, not training. To assume everyone taking the test is a beginner (calculator analogy) is a false assumption, and to assume anyone who likes lasers can't use iron sights, or doesn't know a proper iron sight picture, is also a false assumption IMHO. I know lots of folks dislike lasers for many reasons, and then there are those, like me obviously, that have lasers for the sole purpose of getting off an accurate shot when iron sight picture would be difficult or impossible to obtain due to body position, obstructions, etc., and that train and practice with both. My laser has no on off switch, and I am not bothered by the "dancing dot" as when my iron sights are on target, the laser is hidden by the muzzle. However, in the circumstances I just described, when iron sight picture is difficult or impossible, when the dot is on target I'll fire.