Liberal 2nd amendment view

[K.Mooneyham]

I envy those of you that live in a completely binary world - where everything reduces to either 1 or 0. In such an existence no rational thought has to be made, judgment isn't necessary, and reason can be eliminated. Ohhh to not have to burden myself with trying to reconcile people or situations that come close to fitting a particular context but that don't meet every single one of a couple hundred criteria. Why, I could simply toss them into this bin or the other one!!! And I wouldn't have to give it a second thought to boot!

Woe is me that is cursed with a reason and intellect that can see not only merit to both sides of an argument, but also can see beyond absolutes. I curse my innate pragmatism that forces me to look beyond emotion & irrationality. Would that I could pluck out these eyes that see many shades of Greg in addition to a multitude of colors around me!

I guess we can't all be so lucky as some of you.....

When I was a younger man, I didn't care too much about politics. I worked and just did daily life stuff. But, as I got a little bit older (and was in the USAF longer), I started to take notice of things a bit more. However, I still tried to give the benefit of the doubt to things when I saw something I didn't like. But now that I am not a young man anymore, I have gotten sick and tired of folks who DON'T work and yet receive the benefit of taxpayer funding. I have gotten sick and tired of people who look down their nose at me because they are so wise, mighty and elite (most of them being liberal-progressive/leftist). And I am downright ticked off by those that want to disarm me, no matter how well-meaning they may be. My heart, unfortunately, has become hardened, and it is in direct reaction to the attitude, shenanigans and sometimes downright evil the political left has perpetrated. So if they want to label me a "reactionary" (right out of their little playbooks of communism and socialism) they can go right ahead and do so. I'll take it as a badge of honor.

[saltydog452]

I consider myself to be Liberal in my thinking and my actions.

Equal pay for equal work, a level playing field for all participants, seperation of church and state, and The Bill Of Rights...all of them. Not just a select few and for a select few.

Pandering, (pimping), is just as wrong in D.C. as on the street, and should be just as punishable.

Representatives work for the public rather than a specific 'Party'. Accountability, opportunity, and ,pretty much, what you were taught in 9th grade Civics Class.

Those few items would seem to be novel, and 'Liberal'.

salty

[The Annoyed Man]

I envy those of you that live in a completely binary world - where everything reduces to either 1 or 0. In such an existence no rational thought has to be made, judgment isn't necessary, and reason can be eliminated. Ohhh to not have to burden myself with trying to reconcile people or situations that come close to fitting a particular context but that don't meet every single one of a couple hundred criteria. Why, I could simply toss them into this bin or the other one!!! And I wouldn't have to give it a second thought to boot!

Woe is me that is cursed with a reason and intellect that can see not only merit to both sides of an argument, but also can see beyond absolutes. I curse my innate pragmatism that forces me to look beyond emotion & irrationality. Would that I could pluck out these eyes that see many shades of Greg in addition to a multitude of colors around me!

I guess we can't all be so lucky as some of you.....

Wow.

[TexasCajun]

All sarcasm aside. I have opposed & will continue to oppose any of the continued attacks on our freedoms. And I'm an ardent supporter of less government in all respects. The last four years have set this country backward & I fear that the next four years could see us at a point where recovery may not be possible. The current potus is doing more damage than any outside threat could have ever hoped to accomplish.

That's why this topic is relevant & important to me. There are some minds & opinions that we are not going to change - much in the same way that the antis won't be able to change ours. But if we continue to publicly debate these issues in a calm & rational way, we just might be able to give someone who hasn't made up their mind something to think about.

Now if you want to disregard this because I have not excommunicated everyone from my life that doesn't see things 100% my way then so be it. To tell you the truth, I kind of pity my friends who've taken for the so-called reasonable solution argument.

[anygunanywhere]

All sarcasm aside. I have opposed & will continue to oppose any of the continued attacks on our freedoms. And I'm an ardent supporter of less government in all respects. The last four years have set this country backward & I fear that the next four years could see us at a point where recovery may not be possible. The current potus is doing more damage than any outside threat could have ever hoped to accomplish.

That's why this topic is relevant & important to me. There are some minds & opinions that we are not going to change - much in the same way that the antis won't be able to change ours. But if we continue to publicly debate these issues in a calm & rational way, we just might be able to give someone who hasn't made up their mind something to think about.

Now if you want to disregard this because I have not excommunicated everyone from my life that doesn't see things 100% my way then so be it. To tell you the truth, I kind of pity my friends who've taken for the so-called reasonable solution argument.

I don't excommunicate them from my life and in the same vein I do not know everyone's political leanings.

Those that I do know hold different views from me go on different mental lists than those who I consider my friends. My friends are the ones I will rely on when I need to survive.

Anygunanywhere

[VMI77]

All sarcasm aside. I have opposed & will continue to oppose any of the continued attacks on our freedoms. And I'm an ardent supporter of less government in all respects. The last four years have set this country backward & I fear that the next four years could see us at a point where recovery may not be possible. The current potus is doing more damage than any outside threat could have ever hoped to accomplish.

That's why this topic is relevant & important to me. There are some minds & opinions that we are not going to change - much in the same way that the antis won't be able to change ours. But if we continue to publicly debate these issues in a calm & rational way, we just might be able to give someone who hasn't made up their mind something to think about.

Now if you want to disregard this because I have not excommunicated everyone from my life that doesn't see things 100% my way then so be it. To tell you the truth, I kind of pity my friends who've taken for the so-called reasonable solution argument.

I don't think we're disregarding anything. You have one view of what a friend is, some of us have a different view. I for one am not saying I don't associate with liberals (though I grant that's hard for me to do because I don't know any liberals where I work and don't have any in my family --unless they're distant relatives I don't really know). It's disingenuous to claim any of us are saying we expect 100% agreement from other people in our lives. In the first place you've gone from "friends" to "everyone" in your life: the statement I made was that I don't consider someone who wants to take away my right to self-defense a "friend." Secondly, for most people, there can be a single thing that disqualifies someone from being called a "friend." For instance, I doubt you'd consider a child molester a friend even if he agreed with you 100% about everything else in life. When it comes to politics or philosophy rather than behavior the distinctions may not be so clear, but I think most people will find some such expressions so noxious that it disqualifies someone from being a friend.

For me to consider someone to be a friend I have to trust them. Since we tend to use the term "liberal" so loosely I'm sure there are some honest and trustworthy liberals out there. There are people that post here who say they're liberals but really aren't except in the classical sense that no longer applies to the term. There are probably even some modern liberal collectivists that would put friendship ahead of dogma and if you know anyone like that, good for you. But to me, when someone expresses the desire to take the fundamental right of self-defense away from me, they are essentially saying that their dogma is superior to my life --that I or my loved ones should die if they believe breaking a few eggs is best for the omelet collective. They usually don't consciously express this thought but it is the reality of the policies they advocate. When push comes to shove I just don't believe you can trust a collectivist; and a friend I can't trust is worse than an enemy.

You're obviously aware of the damage done to the Republic and understand the situation in which we find ourselves. Push is going to come to shove in our lifetimes. Someone who wants to take your guns away now has already chosen his side and is not going to be on your side when things get tough. Some of those who we consider friends, and some of our family members, will be traitors as well. Now is the time to sort out who in your circle of family and friends you can really trust when the chips are down for everyone and they're scared, unprepared, and hungry.

[anygunanywhere]

Some of those who currently support our disarmament will realize the error of their beliefs once the shoving starts. They will realize that they are not part of the elite state when they are thrown under the collectivist bus. They will then claim to be our friend and will want to join us in our security.

Sorry. They should have thought about this sooner. Actions and beliefs have consequences. The truth is there for their taking and they chose to believe in the collectivist police state.

This is where the 1 and 0 comes in to play - the black and white, no gray. You either choose truth and liberty or you choose the lie and enslavement.

Anygunanywhere

[The Annoyed Man]

All sarcasm aside. I have opposed & will continue to oppose any of the continued attacks on our freedoms. And I'm an ardent supporter of less government in all respects. The last four years have set this country backward & I fear that the next four years could see us at a point where recovery may not be possible. The current potus is doing more damage than any outside threat could have ever hoped to accomplish.

That's why this topic is relevant & important to me. There are some minds & opinions that we are not going to change - much in the same way that the antis won't be able to change ours. But if we continue to publicly debate these issues in a calm & rational way, we just might be able to give someone who hasn't made up their mind something to think about.

Now if you want to disregard this because I have not excommunicated everyone from my life that doesn't see things 100% my way then so be it. To tell you the truth, I kind of pity my friends who've taken for the so-called reasonable solution argument.

I don't excommunicate them from my life and in the same vein I do not know everyone's political leanings.

Those that I do know hold different views from me go on different mental lists than those who I consider my friends. My friends are the ones I will rely on when I need to survive.

Anygunanywhere

My mother is an 88 year old ARDENT leftwing multiculturalist atheist gun-grabber. Her 90 year old boyfriend is a Polish neo-comm globalist. They are both dear to me—her because she is my mother, and him because he makes my mother happy. I love her, but I also love my country; and if I have to choose between my country and her, sad to say, I will choose my country. She'll be gone in a few short years, but the country lives on and affects the lives of hundreds of millions, including the life of my son—whom I love even more than I love my mother—the life of my daughter in law, and the lives of grandchildren we are expecting to see in the next few years.

I mentioned in a post yesterday the past friendship I had with a gay black author in NYC, whom I know for a certain fact to be anti-gun. My best friend in California is a liberal "the Constitution is a living changing thing" lawyer. He is not anti-gun, even though his shifting and never-centered-in-the original interpretation of the Constitution will lead to gun banning eventually. I don't abandon my friends today because they cannot be relied upon when the bad juju hits the fan tomorrow, but my feelings for these people are freighted with a certain sadness because I know that, unless they change and come around to my view, I may have to leave them behind some day in order to ensure my own survival and the survival of my line through my son.

I think it is important to distinguish between "friends" and "friendly acquaintances." I have lots of the latter, and very very few of the former. "Friendly acquaintances" are the people I know whom I get along with pretty well, whom I might even like in a superficial way. "Friends" are the ones whom I know, without a doubt, that I can absolutely count on when the chips are down. Since I have a somewhat pessimistic view of the nation's future, the "chips" are going to be "down" some day, and "friends" will be in the foxhole with me, while "friendly acquaintances" might actually turn me in some day "for my own good."

My neighbor across the street is one of the sweetest guys you'd ever meet.....a genuinely nice guy. He's a conservative, and an evangelical Christian. We have a lot in common. He and his wife are, like us, empty nesters, and he makes a WHOLE lot more money than I do—but he thinks that when the waste matter hits the oscillating ventilation device, he can come over to my house for protection instead of buying just one, simple handgun with all that money. He suspects that the world is going to get worse, not better, but he doesn't care enough to do anything about it to protect his family. He is a "friendly acquaintance," and he can't be counted on.

AndyC lives a few miles from my house. He and I have done some gun things together, and anybody with a FAL is someone who has considered what it might be like to need one and NOT have one. He has been through all this gun-grabbing stuff before in South Africa. He has combat experience (So. Africa's border wars and Iraq). He respects but totally disagrees with my particular religious perspective. He is decidedly NOT the sweetest guy in the world (I think he'd agree that he can be a bit rasty if he thinks it's called for), but he is a fundamentally decent guy. I'd rather have AndyC in a foxhole with me than my neighbor across the street any day of the week, even though I see my neighbor more frequently, and probably know him a little better than I know AndyC. AndyC is one of my "friends."

The Good Book, (which AndyC takes with a cup of salt ) says that there will be a time when the wheat is separated from the chaff. In Biblical terms, that means that there will come a time when true believers will be separated from the "nominal" believers and the non-believers ("nominal" and "non" being essentially the same thing). But I think that the separation of wheat from chaff is also an apt metaphor for how I categorize people in the war of constitutional preservation.....or the "culture war" if you prefer that term. My neighbor is chaff. AndyC is wheat. My mother and her boyfriend are chaff. My lawyer friend in California is on the cusp. He has an instinct for always doing the right thing, whatever he professes to believe.....so we'll see....but I think that the reason I haven't discarded him into the chaff category is that his instincts are good.

But anymore these days, as people get added into the list of those with whom I am friendly, I am always taking the mark of the person, and trying to decide if they are wheat or chaff. For those whom I think are wheat, I go out of my way to cultivate that friendship. I did this with AndyC for instance. After having enjoyed his posts for a while, I invited him out for coffee, and that is how our friendship started. For those whom I think are chaff, I'm happy to get along with them in a friendly way....and even to enjoy their company....but I won't count on them when the chips are down because they can't be counted on.

I think that this little rant may adress what VMI77 and anygunanywhere are trying to express.

[saltydog452]

Thank you. No way that those convictions could have been expressed in an easier to grasp, yet concise string of words.

salty

[VMI77]

I think that this little rant may address what VMI77 and anygunanywhere are trying to express.

It does for me. The bottom line is, I"m not cutting people I disagree with out of my life, but where I have a crucial and fundamental disagreement, I'm not counting such people as "friends" ---just as you describe above. And when push comes to shove some people are going to have to lay in the bed they made.

[bdickens]

Thank you for that, TAM. There is a big difference between "friends" and "acquaintances."

You have a gift for explaining things succinctly, outspokenly and yet thoroughly, diplomatically and patiently.

I have no such gift; I am blunt, impatient and rough.

[bagman45]

In all things; love, life, friendship, work; there are folks you know will have your back in the foxhole, and those you know will not.

[TexasCajun]

Well put, as always TAM. You've got an incredible gift of being able to boil things down to their true & basic form and then express them without having to resort to sarcasm or empty rhetoric.

If it weren't for the distance involved, I'd love to join in on that coffee with you & AndyC. I bet I'd learn a lot.

I'm the same with respect to putting people I associate with into different classes. I have a handful of close friends - almost family, if you will. These are people that i would drop everything for & i believe would do the same for me. Then there are a handful of purple that I truly despise. I wouldn't do any harm to these people, but if a terrible accident were to happen to them, I wouldn't give it any more notice than I do the wind blowing. The vast majority of people I know fall into the friendly-toward category. And I'm friendly but mainly indifferent where these folks are concerned.