Non US Citizens denied access at Bullet Trap Range?

[Excalibur]

so if they are so paraniod about peoples citizenship are they checking everyone or just profiling?

one of my coworkers is hispanic. he doesnt even know any spanish and has no spanish accent what so ever.but people just assume he is an illegal or whatever else you want to profile about hispanics.

AEA said they were from Slovakia so I doubt they're Hispanic.

[Syntyr]

huh?i have never shown ID to shoot at any gun range ever.I have never had anyone ask to see it either.I have been to quite a few ranges in the houston area and never been asked to show my id.what federal law requires you to show ID to shoot at a gun range?

No federal law, but every rang I have been to takes your license and holds it while you shoot unless you have a membership, then they already have it on file.

Wow really? Top gun doesn't care. I hope I am not getting anyone in trouble but the only time they ask for anything is if you rent from them. Then they take your DL and hold it until you return the gun. That and they ask if you have shot there before and if you haven't they ask you to fill out a liability waiver. That's it. Great range!

[sugar land dave]

It's a matter of interpretation. Foreign visitors may not possess a firearm in the U.S. Some folks read possess as holding it in their hands, others read it as controlling the firearm. As an example, there are a couple of ranges in Las Vegas that have full auto rentals, a group of visitors from Japan drop by, they cycle through the visitors one on one with a range employee with them while they shoot. Who is in control/possession of the firearm? The visitor or the employee?
Some here might know of the dread BATF form 6! This form sets up the hoops foreign visitors have to jump through to bring their firearms and ammo into the country to compete at shooting matches. Ever hunted overseas? I have. My pro hunter sang a Warren Zevon tune when I broached the import/export issue with him. Lawyers, guns, and money. Filled out a 4473? What does it have to say about non-resident aliens?
While you may consider the Bullet Traps actions over the top, in todays regulatory nightmare atmosphere, they may have felt they were protecting their business. And got to be, perhaps, snotty because the visitors were never going to be customers.

The word possess has acquired several meanings, "own" being the current number one meaning. In older days, "control" was the common definition. If I have a firearm in my hand, I definitely control it, but do I own it? Good point!

[Dadtodabone]

I'm not a US citizen, but I own my own firearms. I'm not sure what their problem is, exactly.

Federal law makes no distinction between a legal, permanent resident and a citizen when it comes to your rights. All of them, including your 2A RKBA. Foreign visitors and illegal residents are an entirely different matter.

[jmorris]

huh?i have never shown ID to shoot at any gun range ever.I have never had anyone ask to see it either.I have been to quite a few ranges in the houston area and never been asked to show my id.what federal law requires you to show ID to shoot at a gun range?

No federal law, but every rang I have been to takes your license and holds it while you shoot unless you have a membership, then they already have it on file.

Haven't shot at any place but Bexar Community for a while but I don't remember anyplace ever asking for an ID.

[Beiruty]

Once permanent resident with a green card, said resident would have full rights except to hold a passport and vote in General Elections.

[Dadtodabone]

I'm not a US citizen, but I own my own firearms. I'm not sure what their problem is, exactly.

Federal law makes no distinction between a legal, permanent resident and a citizen when it comes to your rights. All of them, including your 2A RKBA. Foreign visitors and illegal residents are an entirely different matter.

I realize that, but I'm reminded of a local private clay-pigeon range where it's advertised as being for US citizens only.

I called a few years ago to ask if legal permanent residents were allowed to join and was told "No"; I shrugged and figured "Their loss".

The point I guess I'm making is... I wonder what Bullet Trap would tell a permanent resident like me if I arrived to shoot; my accent could hardly be mistaken for anything other than non-US in origin.

Well Andy, you could make it a day the Bullet Trap would never forget, invite Henry Cho to go along!
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=IkjA11Z2OfI[/youtube]

[alvins]

top gun in houston is a good range?not hardly. they tried to have me arrested because one of their employees dont know what legal paperwork from the atf looks like for a supressor.

[bizarrenormality]

so if they are so paraniod about peoples citizenship are they checking everyone or just profiling?

one of my coworkers is hispanic. he doesnt even know any spanish and has no spanish accent what so ever.but people just assume he is an illegal or whatever else you want to profile about hispanics.

AEA said they were from Slovakia so I doubt they're Hispanic.

Probably not but maybe it explains why they wanted to Czech ID.

[AEA]

[C-dub]

A couple months ago a friend and I took several of his friends from England and Russia to Winchester Shooting Gallery over in Fort Worth. They didn't even bat an eye.

Sounds like Bullet Trap nonsense to me. Quail Creek might be the ultimate test.

[drjoker]

DFW gun had a group of college aged kids from Ukraine come rent their full auto Uzi when i was doing my CHL proficiency. They didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I went to DFW gun before they burned down and I distinctly remember that the guys shooting the full auto Uzi had a range employee standing in the same stall with them. Also, the Japanese tourists in Las Vegas had a range employee standing in the booth with them while they shot the guns. That's because regular people who are not residents, citizens, nor have a hunting license cannot legally possess a gun. If a range employee is with them while they shoot, then the range employee is in possession of the gun. Maybe Bullet Trap didn't have a spare employee to accompany your buddies.

Here is the law:
http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/faq/n ... iens-2.pdf