Steamrolled by the Paver of Good Intentions

[TexasCajun]

I was in the meeting with coworkers. If necessary, witnesses could be called.

[jmra]

Can they prove you saw the video? If not I guess it is a mute point.

People can place him there and it was recorded. Definitely not a moot point.

[suthdj]

Can they prove you saw the video? If not I guess it is a mute point.

People can place him there and it was recorded. Definitely not a moot point.

Did you see the "if not", but thank you for correcting my english.

[gringo pistolero]

People confuse the issue of being fired versus being criminally charged.

I worry about those people.

[Skiprr]

Thank you for the clarification. As an employer I do not restrict my employees so it has not been an issue. So, if I did restrict I would have to have the standard 30-06 language in my manual in english and spanish I assume, any size font (?), and then if an employee was carrying they could be fired and would be in violation of the law. Of course in Texas, you can fire anyone anyhow.

The requirement for the Spanish translation and font size applies to signs only. On a "card or other document" the requirement is that the exact English version of the 30.06 notice be shown. The definition falls under "written communication" in PC §30.06(c)(3).

[rotor]

Thank you for the clarification.

[Wes]

If you are

It was my understanding that if you knew carry was not allowed by reference to the employee handbook then you could not carry on the job. I don't believe the written handbook has to be in 30-06 terms, it just has to be there. Same for verbal. So why does this put you at more risk now? Seems that the only difference is that you knew it was not allowed before and that has been formally clarified that it is not allowed. My question I guess is can they arrest you? I know they can fire you.

People confuse the issue of being fired versus being criminally charged.

Before this HR meeting, with non-30.06 signs and non-30.06 language in the handbook, the employee cannot be criminally charged but the employee can certainly be fired.

Once the HR person gave verbal notice that that "Firearms are forbidden" (any language to that effect is valid), now the employee is on notice and can be both criminally charged and fired.

Agreed, my company has a similar no guns policy but as i do not wish to be fired i do not carry. Could I, if properly concealed, of course, but i choose not to. if Hr were to give us oral notice as you receieved, legally i could not any more. And while we are at it. We nitpick clip vs mag so much, might as well clarify it is oral notice and not verbal notice, as written in the statute. ;) just sayin, lol. Yes, verbal works as we all know what is meant, but by the same means clip works as we all know what is meant.

[txglock21]

Let me throw another cog in this wheel...my employer ALLOWS chl holders on property, in buildings, etc., but we, employees, cannot. (per directive) So, Joe Blow off the street can come into my office armed, but I cannot! I'm eligible to retire this month (20years), but financially still have about ten more years or I would be gone!!! Anyway, so in this instance I could be fired, but not arrested if I'm understanding right? I don't carry at work because I'm too old to start over.

[RottenApple]

Anyway, so in this instance I could be fired, but not arrested if I'm understanding right? I don't carry at work because I'm too old to start over.

Depends. If you have received oral notice, or the employee handbook has the 30.06 language in it, or you've been given a paper/card with the 30.06 language on it, then no, you cannot legally carry. If, however, none of those has happened, then the worst they can do is terminate you.

[txglock21]

Anyway, so in this instance I could be fired, but not arrested if I'm understanding right? I don't carry at work because I'm too old to start over.

Depends. If you have received oral notice, or the employee handbook has the 30.06 language in it, or you've been given a paper/card with the 30.06 language on it, then no, you cannot legally carry. If, however, none of those has happened, then the worst they can do is terminate you.

No oral notice, no 30.06 language. It only states that "employees" cannot carry weapons in buildings or vehicles, unless nessasary to fulfill duties. They did go back and change it when law changed to allow to keep in private vehicles in parking lot. They don't tell anyone about the directive. I had to go and look it up myself to make sure. Like I said before, anyone off the street (with CHL) can walk right in, but not employees. I will disclose that I work for a city utility and these are city wide directives. That is why they include the part about "unless nessasary to fulfill duties" because of the police dept.

[RottenApple]

Anyway, so in this instance I could be fired, but not arrested if I'm understanding right? I don't carry at work because I'm too old to start over.

Depends. If you have received oral notice, or the employee handbook has the 30.06 language in it, or you've been given a paper/card with the 30.06 language on it, then no, you cannot legally carry. If, however, none of those has happened, then the worst they can do is terminate you.

No oral notice, no 30.06 language. It only states that "employees" cannot carry weapons in buildings or vehicles, unless nessasary to fulfill duties. They did go back and change it when law changed to allow to keep in private vehicles in parking lot. They don't tell anyone about the directive. I had to go and look it up myself to make sure. Like I said before, anyone off the street (with CHL) can walk right in, but not employees. I will disclose that I work for a city utility and these are city wide directives. That is why they include the part about "unless nessasary to fulfill duties" because of the police dept.

Yep. Then you are legal (barring statutorily off limits locations - court offices, etc). But, as you noted. They can fire you.

[chane]

Just looked up our co policy.

Purpose: The purpose of this policy is to protect against violent acts or threats of violence in the workplace.

Applicability: This policy applies to all employees of the Company.

Policy: The Company will not tolerate violent acts or threats of violence against our employees, applicants, customers, vendors, or other visitors or workers. Violent acts or threats of violent acts are those acts that cause the individual to reasonably fear for his or her personal safety, the safety of his or her co-workers, or his or her personal property.

The Company strictly prohibits the use or possession of any kind of weapon on Company premises (including Company vehicles) by anyone other than a duly sworn law enforcement officer.

Guidelines:

Examples of prohibited violent acts or threats include, but are not limited to, the following:

• Threatened or actual physical harm or aggressive conduct toward another individual, whether through verbal or non-verbal communication.
• Concealed or implied threats of physical harm or similar intimidation.
• Threatened or actual destruction of Company property or the individual’s property.
• Surveillance or stalking (includes harassing or threatening telephone calls, voice mail, messages, e-mail, or other similar communications).
• Fighting, on or off Company property, regardless of who instigated the altercation.

A weapon is considered to be an object or item that by design, manufacture, or use serves as an instrument of offensive or defensive combat, regardless of whether possession of the item is legal or illegal. This includes but is not limited to the following:

• Firearms and explosives (real or replica);
• Knives (real or replica, but excluding pocket knives to be used on the job);
• Clubs and bats;
• Brass knuckles;
• Stun guns; and
• Mace (but excluding pepper spray)


Any employee who uses, brings or otherwise or possesses a weapon on Company premises, whether on his or her person or in his or her locker, office, desk, lunchbox, tool box, purse, briefcase, package, or other personal effects, will be subject to discipline, up to and including termination.

Weapons are not permitted on Company premises even if the employee has a valid permit to carry one.

Searches and Inspections

The Company reserves the right at all times to conduct reasonable searches and inspections of persons while they are entering, leaving, or on Company premises. Such searches may include an inspection of persons and personal property including but not limited to: lockers, offices, desks, lunchboxes, tool boxes, purses, briefcases, packages, vehicles and other personal effects. Individuals who refuse to consent to a search will not be admitted on Company premises, and will be relieved of duty, removed from the Company’s property, and barred from further entry.

Reporting Procedure

Any employee who is subjected to or threatened at work with violence by a co-worker, customer, vendor, or other third party, or who is aware of any other prohibited activities pursuant to this Policy, should immediately report the matter to their immediate supervisor, a member of management or the site Human Resources officer, director or manager.

Interpretation and Assistance: The Company’s Senior Vice President - Human Resources & Administration is responsible for interpretation of this policy and must approve any exceptions to this policy. Questions about this policy should be directed to an employee’s Business Unit Human Resources department.

[Wes]

So you can carry and not face criminal charges if caught, but you could be fired. Always fun, mine reads very similar.

[gigag04]

Proving up notice is tricky. This is why CT Warnings exist.

[sjfcontrol]

Can they prove you saw the video? If not I guess it is a mute point.

Moot, not mute.