Two CHL's one gun

[cb1000rider]

I was thinking about this over the weekend.
My wife and I both have CHLs.
I was driving my wife's car and I happened to know that she had a firearm in the glove box.
Assume we get stopped. My CHL shows up when we're pulled over, but I don't provide my license, as I'm not carrying a firearm.
However, having a firearm in the glove box is "on or about my person".
If I'm asked if there is a firearm in the vehicle, and I answer yes, that's a problem.

Clearly the smart thing to do is to provide that CHL when stopped and that's probably what I would choose to do... But I don't always ask my wife where her firearm is. I assume this is a case, where you could end up in a bind?

[Wes]

In your glove box being on or about your person is all in the eye of the beholder. I don't personally feel it would be but either way, I always show my chl when asked for id no matter what so I build the habit of doing so. Also, don't forget there is no penalty now so not sure it would really be a problem anyways.

[Keith B]

In your glove box being on or about your person is all in the eye of the beholder. I don't personally feel it would be but either way, I always show my chl when asked for id no matter what so I build the habit of doing so. Also, don't forget there is no penalty now so not sure it would really be a problem anyways.

The front passenger compartment of a vehicle is considered 'about your person' in Texas. Taht would include consoles and glove boxes. So, my thoguht is that if you suspicion there is a firearm in the vehicle, then present your CHL with your DL. When the officer asks, then ask your wife where it is. Make sure she doesn't make a move to show the officer the location.

[cb1000rider]

I think that's the take away (for me): always present.

[Wes]

I understand some believe that, but by what means is it based on? A center console I could understand because it is very easily accessible but the glove box? I can't reach my glove box very easily in any vehicle I've ever owned. It seems that this would be something that is up to the cop to determine if it got that far and a situation I would personally avoid, hence all show chl.

[Keith B]

I understand some believe that, but by what means is it based on? A center console I could understand because it is very easily accessible but the glove box? I can't reach my glove box very easily in any vehicle I've ever owned. It seems that this would be something that is up to the cop to determine if it got that far and a situation I would personally avoid, hence all show chl.

Short arms or big vehcile doesn't matter. The front passenger compartment including glove box has been the defacto standard for many years as to being considered within your reach. An individual officer might make the determination that it wasn't, but I wouldn't want to push the fact.

[Keith B]

BTW, here is some case law:

Bouldin v. State, 440 S.W.2d 859 (Tex Crim. App. 1969) (handgun in locked glove compartment was "on or about" defendant's person and sufficient to sustain conviction for unlawfully carrying a weapon).

Booth v. State, 344 S.W.2d 885 (Tex. Crim. App. 1961) (Pistol in locked glove compartment sufficient to sustain conviction).

Hutspeth v. State, 254 S.W.2d 130 (Tex. Crim. App. 1953) “Proof that appellant carried a pistol in the glove compartment of his car warranted conviction of carrying on or about his person a pistol.”

Franklin v. State, 183 S.W.2d 573 (Tex. Crim. App. 1944) “Peace officers apprehended appellant driving his automobile along a public highway. In the glove compartment of the car they found a pistol, This is the State’s testimony and is sufficient to show a prima facie case of guilt.”

[RX8er]

It's always your responsibility to know what's in the car that you are driving.

[Wes]

Good reads, thanks

[flechero]

If I'm asked if there is a firearm in the vehicle, and I answer yes, that's a problem.

if it's legally carried by someone else. It's on or about her person and she's legal, why do you have to claim it as yours? Where does the law say the "driver" owns the contents of anything "about" your person, when more than one share the space? If it's her car, her gun and she's in control of it, then it's not your car, your gun or your responsibility to "claim" it, as it's not yours and you aren't the one 'carrying' it. I'm not saying that it's smart to do this but I don't think it would be illegal. I guess the actual question comes into play - did he ask if YOU had any weapons, or if there were any weapons?

brings up another question that I'll post so I don't hijack.

[cb1000rider]

Keith responded with case law references. I knew that a gun in the glove box is established as being "on or about" your person, which brought me to my question.
I don't know that there is a duty to claim it and you are ending up in a sort of double-jeopardy situation, but it's one of those things where I feel like we have bigger constitutional issues to fry than this one.
It's resolved by either claiming it, or not claiming it but disclosing that there is a weapon in the car.

[rbwhatever1]

Are CHL holders unable to carry a handgun in their vehicles like the rest of the Law Abiding Citizens in Texas that do not have a CHL?

[Keith B]

Here is my view; there are two CHL holders in the car. The handgun is 'about their person' for both of them as it is not 'on their person'. If you are stopped and asked for your DL, then as the driver you should present your CHL as well as your are technically in possession of the handgun.

Now, if your wife had the handgun 'on her person', then she is the only one in control and you technically wouldn't have present your CHL. However, I have always been of the opinion that you should present your CHL, carrying or not, as when they run your license they are going to see the CHL status and 99% chance they will come back and ask. Depending on how well the officer understands the law on presenting your CHL if carrying or not, you may get hassled. Why worry about it, be up front, and tell them if you aren't trying to hide something.

[Rifleman55]

With the motorist protection act all of the above arguments are moot point, weather you have a CHL or not.

[Keith B]

With the motorist protection act all of the above arguments are moot point, weather you have a CHL or not.

Actually they are not. If you have a CHL and a gun on or about your person, then you are considered carrying and are required to present your CHL when asked for ID.