Is this proper police procedure?

[Oldgringo]

I question the wisdom of a cop shooting at a vehicle for any reason other than the driver of the vehicle is an immediate deadly threat to innocents.

There it is!

Sorry...the age/gender of the vehicles' passengers/driver is entirely coincidental.

[cb1000rider]

Sorry...the age/gender of the vehicles passengers/driver is entirely coincidental.

That's the question I'm asking. If it's OK to shoot at a fleeing felon with an adult passenger in the car, how is that *any* different than shooting at a minivan with non-adult passengers? Especially if one of them just attacked you.

[SewTexas]

Sorry...the age/gender of the vehicles passengers/driver is entirely coincidental.

That's the question I'm asking. If it's OK to shoot at a fleeing felon with an adult passenger in the car, how is that *any* different than shooting at a minivan with non-adult passengers? Especially if one of them just attacked you.

unfortunately, there is such a thing as TV and...oh, what's the word, not PR....optics? I hate to say it, but it looks a whole heck of a lot worse when the police shoot at and run a van off the road, with and adult and a mess of kids, including several in booster seats, instead of a van with two adults. then you have they added problem of making sure you get the vehicle in just the right place/way, what happens if the driver looses control and it flips?

I can't go with shooting at a car for a traffic violation, esp when they knew there were children in it

[TexasFlash]

Highly trained professionals make six figure salaries. No offense to police officers but I haven't met many that would come anywhere close to meeting the standards of a "highly trained professional".

wow....

[texanjoker]

Highly trained professionals make six figure salaries. No offense to police officers but I haven't met many that would come anywhere close to meeting the standards of a "highly trained professional".

wow....

Yeah.... I guess he finally tells us how he really feels.

[baldeagle]

Judge Napolitano's take on this.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/11/19/na ... -full-kids" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Napolitano is wrong.

"The law is that the police can't use deadly force unless deadly force has been used on them," said Napolitano,

Police can use deadly force at the threat of deadly force, not only after it's been used on them. That would be crazy.

Watching the video, it appears to me that the officer was trying to shoot out the tires, not shoot into the minivan.

you can't even see the tires from the dash cam, much less from a standing position...the kid's acting like Walker Texas Ranger shooting at that mini-van, except he wouldn't have...

Go back and look at the video. He wasn't a kid, and he wasn't standing. He was almost squatting and clearly shooting in a downward direction. Either he was trying to shoot out the tires or he's a very poor aim. I saw no bullets strike the car, break the rear window glass or any of the rear lights. Where did the bullets go?

[jmra]

Highly trained professionals make six figure salaries. No offense to police officers but I haven't met many that would come anywhere close to meeting the standards of a "highly trained professional".

wow....

Yeah.... I guess he finally tells us how he really feels.

I think police officers are public servants most of whom are willing to put their lives on the line to "serve and protect". I believe many of them rightly deserve to be viewed as heroes. But that doesn't change the fact that a profession that barely requires a high school diploma does not as a rule produce "highly trained professionals". Officers that spend less time at the range than I do and very little time in continuing education are not "highly trained professionals".
Without much thought I can think of one career officer that I know who is a "highly trained professional". He is a 29 year veteran officer including several tours in Iraq training security forces. He is currently a professor at a brick and mortar 4 year university teaching criminal justice. I'm sure there are many others but they are by far the exception and by no stretch of the imagination the rule.
ETA: I believe some misunderstand what I am saying. I am in no way berating officers when I say that as a rule they are not "highly trained professionals". I'm sure some of the elite tactical units are in fact HTPs (got tired of typing the whole thing). I believe the same comparison could be made with members of the military. A MP is trained to perform his duties adequately. Even if he does his job very well, no one would consider him to be a HTP. Now let's look at a career veteran member of one of the special forces. He has years of specialized training and is an expert in his field. There is no question that he is a HTP. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

[gigag04]

Some things that stand out to me are:

+ The woman was an idiot for driving away and then not obeying the cop once he got her stopped again.

+ The teenager should not have exited the vehicle and approached the officer.

+ I'm surprised the cop couldn't get better control of the lady and cuff her when he got her out if the car. Would have thought he would be a little better at securing a person, especially a female.

+ Not sure the cop going after the window like that was necessary. Seems like that was escalation beyond necessity. He came across as an enraged lunatic.

+ The cop did a poor job dealing with the teenager when he got out of the car.

+ Seems like the backup cop should have stopped his car in front of the van so they could not leave again. It was known they had fled once.

+ Shooting at the tires of a fleeing vehicle from that vantage point seems like a very high risk low success rate proposition.

It doesn't appear the cops acted in a professional safe manner when confronted by an idiot woman and her teenage son. I expect highly trained professionals to be able to handle such situations better than what I saw on this video.

Highly trained professionals make six figure salaries. No offense to police officers but I haven't met many that would come anywhere close to meeting the standards of a "highly trained professional".

I know a few that are in the service of our country who don't make that salary while they're in. They also run a high op tempo and our away from their wives and kids most of the year. Just something to think about.

[jmra]

Some things that stand out to me are:

+ The woman was an idiot for driving away and then not obeying the cop once he got her stopped again.

+ The teenager should not have exited the vehicle and approached the officer.

+ I'm surprised the cop couldn't get better control of the lady and cuff her when he got her out if the car. Would have thought he would be a little better at securing a person, especially a female.

+ Not sure the cop going after the window like that was necessary. Seems like that was escalation beyond necessity. He came across as an enraged lunatic.

+ The cop did a poor job dealing with the teenager when he got out of the car.

+ Seems like the backup cop should have stopped his car in front of the van so they could not leave again. It was known they had fled once.

+ Shooting at the tires of a fleeing vehicle from that vantage point seems like a very high risk low success rate proposition.

It doesn't appear the cops acted in a professional safe manner when confronted by an idiot woman and her teenage son. I expect highly trained professionals to be able to handle such situations better than what I saw on this video.

Highly trained professionals make six figure salaries. No offense to police officers but I haven't met many that would come anywhere close to meeting the standards of a "highly trained professional".

I know a few that are in the service of our country who don't make that salary while they're in. They also run a high op tempo and our away from their wives and kids most of the year. Just something to think about.

My brother was one of those who recently retired from the military with a special skill set. He is now using that skill set to make many times the amount of money he made while serving our country. There is no doubt that he was and is a highly trained professional.

[rbwhatever1]

I agree with the whole "HTP" thing. This Senior LEO here is a good example of a non HTP...one that should never have been carrying a badge OR a firearm.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas/C ... 80381.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[baldeagle]

The officer who fired at the vehicle has been placed on paid administrative leave while they investigate. He stated that he was attempting to shoot the left rear tire out.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ap-n ... d-21113610" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[texanjoker]

He has now been fired. He also said he was firing at the left rear tire which confirms some suspicions in our thread. Not many go to work where a split section decision, whether right or wrong can cause one to be unemployed, dead, seriously injured or even incarcerated. In this case he is unemployed and there could be more to follow. Then the civil suit. This is not making any excuses for or against Montoya, but stating the reality of working in law enforcement. Sure it's "part of the job" but a part most will never understand unless they are put into the position of doing it and assuming the liability/risks for doing it.

According to a police report, Montoya later bought the entire family food from McDonald's during the booking process.

http://www.officer.com/news/11268631/ne ... g-is-fired" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[A-R]

According to a police report, Montoya later bought the entire family food from McDonald's during the booking process.

This PROVES he was trying to kill them. His almighty Bloomberg would string up for sure based in this alone.

[JSThane]

I'd say shooting the tire was fairly poor judgement, regardless of whether it was in policy or not (and I'm guessing it probably wasn't). The van can be followed; the plates are visible on dashcam, and Taos is a LOOOONG way from the US/MX border, so not much chance of getting away. Just tag-team the car, agency to agency, until it runs out of gas. :P Or radio ahead, get a spike strip set up and deflate the tires properly (and don't be like the locals in my neck of the woods, where one agency spiked another agency while trying to spike a vehicle that ran from a third).

[VoiceofReason]

He has now been fired. He also said he was firing at the left rear tire which confirms some suspicions in our thread. Not many go to work where a split section decision, whether right or wrong can cause one to be unemployed, dead, seriously injured or even incarcerated. In this case he is unemployed and there could be more to follow. Then the civil suit. This is not making any excuses for or against Montoya, but stating the reality of working in law enforcement. Sure it's "part of the job" but a part most will never understand unless they are put into the position of doing it and assuming the liability/risks for doing it.

According to a police report, Montoya later bought the entire family food from McDonald's during the booking process.

http://www.officer.com/news/11268631/ne ... g-is-fired" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMHO if he otherwise had a good record, firing him was a little over the top. Thirty days unpaid suspension and two years probation would have been sufficient. He probably realized he messed up right after firing the shots and I doubt he would ever do something like this again.

If he messed up bad within the two years, fire him. If not, remove it from his record. This just appeared to be a bad split second decision. I don’t believe he did it out of malice with the intention of hurting anyone in the van. There were no bullet holes in the van and if he had tried to hit it, it would have been hard to miss it.

Edited to add:
After thinking about it a little more, the whole thing stinks. By shooting the tire out the officer could have prevented the mother from risking the lives of the children and the lives of other innocent people.