Federal Judge Rules Drivers Allowed To Warn About Speed Trap

[chasfm11]

I have conducted extensive research on this. In all but the smallest of towns, and I mean tiny, All revenues from fines are a miniscule percentage of a budget. Like less than 5% to as low as a half a percent. That includes fines from traffic, code compliance, and other regulations.

Also keep in mind that the people issuing the citations don't care about revenue.

Tickets for flashing your lights to warn of traffic enforcement are more about attitude than revenue, IMO.

I don't have anything but anecdotal evidence to support my claim but our town DOES depend on the revenue. Our mayor, in an inform meeting, admitted as much. Our town was accused of being a speed trap on Facebook and, after several days of heated back and forth, I suggested that it would be easy to resolve the matter and have the town voluntarily pass the revenue to the State. Backpedaling quickly ensued. I was told that the town was entitled to the revenue because of its efforts toward enforcement. I reminded them that if the enforcement was done for safety purposes as they stated, the revenue aspect shouldn't be important. Magically, the thread died and there was no more defense. I think that the point was proved. I'm not sure that all towns have a similar motive but strongly believe that ours does. BTW, I've never paid a traffic citation fine in the past 25 years and we've lived in this town for less than 12 so sour grapes from me is not part of my motivation.

[jbarn]

I have conducted extensive research on this. In all but the smallest of towns, and I mean tiny, All revenues from fines are a miniscule percentage of a budget. Like less than 5% to as low as a half a percent. That includes fines from traffic, code compliance, and other regulations.

Also keep in mind that the people issuing the citations don't care about revenue.

Tickets for flashing your lights to warn of traffic enforcement are more about attitude than revenue, IMO.

I don't have anything but anecdotal evidence to support my claim but our town DOES depend on the revenue. Our mayor, in an inform meeting, admitted as much. Our town was accused of being a speed trap on Facebook and, after several days of heated back and forth, I suggested that it would be easy to resolve the matter and have the town voluntarily pass the revenue to the State. Backpedaling quickly ensued. I was told that the town was entitled to the revenue because of its efforts toward enforcement. I reminded them that if the enforcement was done for safety purposes as they stated, the revenue aspect shouldn't be important. Magically, the thread died and there was no more defense. I think that the point was proved. I'm not sure that all towns have a similar motive but strongly believe that ours does. BTW, I've never paid a traffic citation fine in the past 25 years and we've lived in this town for less than 12 so sour grapes from me is not part of my motivation.

Your town's budget is public record. You can see how much of the budget is from fines. If you don not mind, you could post your town, and I could try to locate it.

Small towns can and do depend on court revenue......

[cb1000rider]

Digging around:
http://arencambre.com/blog/2010/03/04/t ... eed-traps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Worst offender:
Westlake (Affluent community near Austin), data 2000-2008:
340 tickets written per citizen.
$42000 of ticket revenue per citizen.
$8.9M in ticket revenue.

Lakeway - near Austin, per Lakeway: http://www.lakeway-tx.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
6% of city revenue
Average speeding citation is between 12-15 mph over.
Tickets for less than 5mph over are "very rare".

I'm not that offended by it, unless city officials indicate that it's really about public safety when enforcing speed limits at the actual speed of traffic. If we didn't have citations, that revenue would have to come from somewhere else (like my property taxes)... So I got old, slowed down, and try not to engage in voluntary taxation.

[PUCKER]

Decided to look up the City of Grapevine, from the 2013-2014 Budget (http://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), some snippets:

FY 2013 ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
Goal: Maintain financial stability and strong fiscal management
 Fines and forfeiture revenue increased by $244,000 (12%).

REVENUE AND OTHER FINANCING SOURCES:
Fines and Forfeitures:
2010-11 Actual: $1,877,699
2011-12 Actual: $2,013,922
2012-13 Estimate: $2,257,669
2013-14 Approved: $2,299,030

Commercial Vehicle Enforcement:
2010-11 Actual: $150,181
2011-12 Actual: $250,000
2012-13 Estimate: $187,226
2013-14 Approved: $200,000

[anygunanywhere]

Follow the money....

Anygunanywhere

[talltex]

Digging around:
http://arencambre.com/blog/2010/03/04/t ... eed-traps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Worst offender:
Westlake (Affluent community near Austin), data 2000-2008:
340 tickets written per citizen.
$42000 of ticket revenue per citizen.
$8.9M in ticket revenue.

Lakeway - near Austin, per Lakeway: http://www.lakeway-tx.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
6% of city revenue
Average speeding citation is between 12-15 mph over.
Tickets for less than 5mph over are "very rare".

I'm not that offended by it, unless city officials indicate that it's really about public safety when enforcing speed limits at the actual speed of traffic. If we didn't have citations, that revenue would have to come from somewhere else (like my property taxes)... So I got old, slowed down, and try not to engage in voluntary taxation.

Just to be accurate, the town of Westlake is north of Ft. Worth on Hwy. 114 near Lake Grapevine and they've been in the top spot for fine revenue per capita for at least 5 years. They have no city property taxes as all municipal functions are more than covered by the fine revenues. You were probably thinking of West Lake Hills on the west side of Austin...a lot of people down there refer to it as just West Lake.

[03Lightningrocks]

Here is a story about a guy from Frisco texas that was warning other drivers. I wonder if the new ruling exonerates all these folks?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-man-figh ... d=21559309" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"A Texas man who was arrested for waving a sign to warn drivers of a lurking traffic cop defended himself in a court by saying his warning was "the same thing as a speed limit sign."

Ron Martin, 33, appeared in court Wednesday to fight a misdemeanor charge of waving a homemade sign.

He was arrested last October after Police Officer Thomas Mronzinski saw him on the median strip of a six-lane highway holding up the sign – he is a sign painter by trade – reading "Police Ahead."

[texanjoker]

The City of Kyle recently added a motor unit. They expect him to generate enough revenue to pay for the position and MC.... .that is a lotta ticket writing!

[mojo84]

Digging around:
http://arencambre.com/blog/2010/03/04/t ... eed-traps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Worst offender:
Westlake (Affluent community near Austin), data 2000-2008:
340 tickets written per citizen.
$42000 of ticket revenue per citizen.
$8.9M in ticket revenue.

Lakeway - near Austin, per Lakeway: http://www.lakeway-tx.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
6% of city revenue
Average speeding citation is between 12-15 mph over.
Tickets for less than 5mph over are "very rare".

I'm not that offended by it, unless city officials indicate that it's really about public safety when enforcing speed limits at the actual speed of traffic. If we didn't have citations, that revenue would have to come from somewhere else (like my property taxes)... So I got old, slowed down, and try not to engage in voluntary taxation.

I do not think that is the Westlake that is part of Austin. I believe the one referenced is in the Town of Westlake in the DFW area.

[jbarn]

Digging around:
http://arencambre.com/blog/2010/03/04/t ... eed-traps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Worst offender:
Westlake (Affluent community near Austin), data 2000-2008:
340 tickets written per citizen.
$42000 of ticket revenue per citizen.
$8.9M in ticket revenue.

Lakeway - near Austin, per Lakeway: http://www.lakeway-tx.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
6% of city revenue
Average speeding citation is between 12-15 mph over.
Tickets for less than 5mph over are "very rare".

I'm not that offended by it, unless city officials indicate that it's really about public safety when enforcing speed limits at the actual speed of traffic. If we didn't have citations, that revenue would have to come from somewhere else (like my property taxes)... So I got old, slowed down, and try not to engage in voluntary taxation.

Westlake has a freeway, SH 114, that runs through it. People fly through there. I am not surprised at the number of fines. But those numbers are not broken down, and covers ALL tickets and fines, traffic, code enforcement, etc.

I wonder what the percentage of revenue that is?

[jbarn]

Digging around:
http://arencambre.com/blog/2010/03/04/t ... eed-traps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Worst offender:
Westlake (Affluent community near Austin), data 2000-2008:
340 tickets written per citizen.
$42000 of ticket revenue per citizen.
$8.9M in ticket revenue.

Lakeway - near Austin, per Lakeway: http://www.lakeway-tx.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
6% of city revenue
Average speeding citation is between 12-15 mph over.
Tickets for less than 5mph over are "very rare".

I'm not that offended by it, unless city officials indicate that it's really about public safety when enforcing speed limits at the actual speed of traffic. If we didn't have citations, that revenue would have to come from somewhere else (like my property taxes)... So I got old, slowed down, and try not to engage in voluntary taxation.

Just to be accurate, the town of Westlake is north of Ft. Worth on Hwy. 114 near Lake Grapevine and they've been in the top spot for fine revenue per capita for at least 5 years. They have no city property taxes as all municipal functions are more than covered by the fine revenues. You were probably thinking of West Lake Hills on the west side of Austin...a lot of people down there refer to it as just West Lake.

According to the Tarrant County Appraisal District website the town of Westlake has a city property tax rate of 0.15684.

Isn't the town near Austin called Weslaco?

[Oldgringo]

The police could write a dozen or more tickets a day in the 30 mph residential zone in front of our house.....if they just would.

[JP171]

It matters because a good portion of traffic enforcement isn't actually about safety, it's about revenue. I used to get fairly tweaked about it, but now that I'm elderly, I consider it another form of "voluntary taxation".

You can't do this sort of thing in Frisco,TX either.. Flashing lights might be OK, but holding up a sign will get you arrested:
http://rt.com/usa/texas-cops-traffic-sign-797/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CB Rider, sorry to say sir it has nothing to do with safety its ALL about revenue anymore, safety is nothing more than a pipe dream, MONEY is KING in the world so we have to generate revenue. now the afore mentioned attitude may not be that of regular patrol officers but it sure is from the managers of the police dept and the upper management of what ever level of political sub of the state, mayor, count commissioner or what ever level you go to, the non LEO leadership has nothing more than money on the mind and how to give it to those on the dole, kinda like harry canyon skit in the movie heavy metal.

[K.Mooneyham]

I drive through the little section of Westlake that crosses I-35W from time to time. There is almost always at least one unit out there shooting radar, so I'm not surprised about the revenue they generate. I'll admit to being a "5 over" kind of guy because the speed on my GPS reads about that much LOWER than the speedometer in my truck, so I do the speed limit as the GPS shows it. However, I slow down BELOW the speed limit on the speedometer when I go through there. Its such a short stretch of highway there so I'm not sure how much they are increasing safety through their diligent efforts.

[talltex]

Just to be accurate, the town of Westlake is north of Ft. Worth on Hwy. 114 near Lake Grapevine and they've been in the top spot for fine revenue per capita for at least 5 years. They have no city property taxes as all municipal functions are more than covered by the fine revenues. You were probably thinking of West Lake Hills on the west side of Austin...a lot of people down there refer to it as just West Lake.

According to the Tarrant County Appraisal District website the town of Westlake has a city property tax rate of 0.15684.

Isn't the town near Austin called Weslaco?

Nope...Weslaco is in south Texas...down on the border near McAllen. The town close to Austin is West Lake Hills...not Westlake. The town of Westlake is just off 114...has one exit ramp that goes into town...but they work the highway constantly. They've even contracted with Keller to have Keller's motorcycle radar units write tickets for Westlake. As for the taxes, well I guess they decided that over $42,000.00 in revenue per resident wasn't enough, even though that's far more than the property tax would generate.