So, Who do you think committed the crime in this incident?

[mojo84]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02 ... -it-ended/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

‘Ridiculous’: How a Firefighter Ended Up in Handcuffs While Helping Victims at Scene of Serious Car Accident

Pretty crazy stuff and some really messed up priorities.

[SewTexas]

middle of an incident is not the place to have a spitting match

[texanjoker]

Gonna be interesting. I have had friends analyze the video on the SD news and everybody has an opinion. One thing different is that in CA, the CHP opens the roads. They do not shut the entire road down like they do here in Austin and are very good at keeping traffic flowing. They have ultimate authority on it and apparently this turned into a ridiculous pissing contest. Having dealt with some just as bad guys in the FD I can see how it went south. Gonna be some heads rolling....

[Oldgringo]

Mine is bigger than yours.

[WildBill]

When I lived in California I attended a traffic school class [yeah I got a ticket] that was given by an CHP officer. I remember him telling the class that [one of] the first priorities of the CHP was to keep the traffic moving.

[ELB]

...They have ultimate authority on it ....

I suspect this will be one of the hinge points. Does the CHP in California actually have final authority over a crash scene where there are still victims and unstabilized vehicles, or vehicles that present a threat of fire etc? According to this article, http://www.firelawblog.com/2010/03/01/p ... -continue/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -- the CHP gets to be the incident commander.

But not everywhere. In a 2003 incident in Missouri, a police officer ended up with an almost $18,000 judgment against him in federal court for a Section 1983 (civil rights) violation for pretty much the same thing -- told a fire captain to move a truck and the captain said no. Into handcuffs and into the police car he went. This story http://www.firefightingnews.com/article ... leID=45234" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; touches on the fact that a court ruled the officer had no probably cause to arrest the fire captain because he "had state law on his side." It doesn't elaborate, but other articles I read at the time noted that Missouri state law puts the fire department in charge of accident scenes where they have stuff to do, i.e. rescue and treat people, put out fires, stabilize cars, etc. Because of that the officer's own agency, which was also sued initially. got themselves out of the suit by stating that what the officer did was not department policy or training (IIRC). (The officer's case was not helped in the punitive phase when the jury found out that he had a record for using excessive force...).

So far none of the incidents I have responded to have had such an outcome. But thankfully we do not have a busy interstate running through our district. I lived in Los Angeles for 4 years, and Cali traffic was a nightmare. Not the worse drivers or most dangerous traffic I ever encountered, but the massive amount of traffic was overwhelming sometimes, and accidents quickly caused miles of backups. I saw more cars on the 405 at 3 a.m. than most places have in daytime.

[steveincowtown]

Mine is bigger than yours.

Yup. I am with Texanjoker here though, I am going to ignore the video, and the fact that a public servant was interrupted during the course of his duties, and wait for the facts to come out. I mean that fire truck parked that way could have caused...well a traffic jam. People need to get places, and the fact that someone was trying to save a life shouldn't outweigh that.

Give me a break.

[SewTexas]

...They have ultimate authority on it ....

I suspect this will be one of the hinge points. Does the CHP in California actually have final authority over a crash scene where there are still victims and unstabilized vehicles, or vehicles that present a threat of fire etc? According to this article, http://www.firelawblog.com/2010/03/01/p ... -continue/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -- the CHP gets to be the incident commander.

But not everywhere. In a 2003 incident in Missouri, a police officer ended up with an almost $18,000 judgment against him in federal court for a Section 1983 (civil rights) violation for pretty much the same thing -- told a fire captain to move a truck and the captain said no. Into handcuffs and into the police car he went. This story http://www.firefightingnews.com/article ... leID=45234" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; touches on the fact that a court ruled the officer had no probably cause to arrest the fire captain because he "had state law on his side." It doesn't elaborate, but other articles I read at the time noted that Missouri state law puts the fire department in charge of accident scenes where they have stuff to do, i.e. rescue and treat people, put out fires, stabilize cars, etc. Because of that the officer's own agency, which was also sued initially. got themselves out of the suit by stating that what the officer did was not department policy or training (IIRC). (The officer's case was not helped in the punitive phase when the jury found out that he had a record for using excessive force...).

So far none of the incidents I have responded to have had such an outcome. But thankfully we do not have a busy interstate running through our district. I lived in Los Angeles for 4 years, and Cali traffic was a nightmare. Not the worse drivers or most dangerous traffic I ever encountered, but the massive amount of traffic was overwhelming sometimes, and accidents quickly caused miles of backups. I saw more cars on the 405 at 3 a.m. than most places have in daytime.

I actually went straight to this thought. I'm fairly sure the firefighter didn't think "oh, I'll park here and block as many people as I can" but probably rather thought "this is the best to access the injured and access our gear" at least that's what I would want them thinking if I were injured and they were helping me.

[howdy]

That firetruck also protects the firefighters and first responders from the passing cars. That truck probably carrys 1000 gallons of water and it would take a very large vehicle to knock it out of the way. Working on the freeway is very dangerous and their safety comes before traffic congestion.

[texanjoker]

Mine is bigger than yours.

Yup. I am with Texanjoker here though, I am going to ignore the video, and the fact that a public servant was interrupted during the course of his duties, and wait for the facts to come out. I mean that fire truck parked that way could have caused...well a traffic jam. People need to get places, and the fact that someone was trying to save a life shouldn't outweigh that.

Give me a break.

If the give me a break is for me, re read what I wrote. I didn't take sides and said heads will roll. Just pointed out the fact that the CHP keeps roads open. if you read other articles he was not doing 1st aid and they had told all engines to leave. Not saying the chp is right or wrong. I'm sure he will be in some big trouble. Most leo's know to work well with the FD since they may be the ones transporting you when injured. CHP will probably find himself working at a very unpleasant assignment very soon. The FD guy will probably file a lawsuit and get a nice boat out of it. Or if both were at fault they both will find themselves in an unpleasant assignment and both spanked hard.

[steveincowtown]

If the give me a break is for me, re read what I wrote. I didn't take sides and said heads will roll.

(bolding is mine..)

Having dealt with some just as bad guys in the FD I can see how it went south. Gonna be some heads rolling....

I read it, must have misunderstood what "bad guys in the FD" meant.Carry on.

[mojo84]

Most leo's know to work well with the FD since they may be the ones transporting you when injured.

I am not going to get into a nitpicking argument but I do want to point out, I find this attitude/motivation/comment somewhat bothersome. It shouldn't be about what may benefit or effect the cop in the future, it's about serving the public and the best interest of the injured crash victims.

I'm sure there are multiple stories, accounts and perspectives out there. Bottom line in my opinion, the chip interfered with the firefighters out of ego and power trip. Just as many say, the side of the road is not the place to argue with a cop, it's not the place for a cop to argue, arrest or drain the firefighter. If the firefighter was in the wrong, a complaint should be filed and let the chiefs do their jobs.

[texanjoker]

If the give me a break is for me, re read what I wrote. I didn't take sides and said heads will roll.

(bolding is mine..)

Having dealt with some just as bad guys in the FD I can see how it went south. Gonna be some heads rolling....

I read it, must have misunderstood what "bad guys in the FD" meant.Carry on.

The intent on the FD portion was that I have seen people that are idiots on both sides of the table meaning both CHP & FD, so I can see how it went south.

[texanjoker]

Most leo's know to work well with the FD since they may be the ones transporting you when injured.

I am not going to get into a nitpicking argument but I do want to point out, I find this attitude/motivation/comment somewhat bothersome. It shouldn't be about what may benefit or effect the cop in the future, it's about serving the public and the best interest of the injured crash victims.

I'm sure there are multiple stories, accounts and perspectives out there. Bottom line in my opinion, the chip interfered with the firefighters out of ego and power trip. Just as many say, the side of the road is not the place to argue with a cop, it's not the place for a cop to argue, arrest or drain the firefighter. If the firefighter was in the wrong, a complaint should be filed and let the chiefs do their jobs.

\

I

Let me give you a prime example. I have never been a "ticket writer' nor worked for an agency that requires one to issue mass tickets for revenue. I give many people breaks. That is a proven fact that I am proud of. I prefer a warning vs a fine to get the point across. Sure some do need the fine for various reasons like massive priors, ect. If I choose to provide the same warning for a FD or LEO that is my discretion. Lets then look at DUI/DWI. For the record I have NEVER stopped a FD or LEO for DUI / DWI, but have given many many normal peeps a ride home (teachers, preachers, moms, dads, military,ect). That is not a violation of any law or policy where I have worked. Should I ever encounter a FD or LEO and give them a ride home, so be it as that would be no different then all the breaks I have given many others over the decades. Can't say I would or wouldn't as each stop is different. With that background, I gave a FD a break for a minor traffic infraction on one day. The next day I was critically injured on duty after being hit by a car. Guess who was the FD/paramedic that transported me ? Not saying service would have been different, but that is a fact of life. People get upset when they here somebody got a break, but in reality people get breaks everyday. The alternative would be 100% tickets for everything which wouldn't accomplish anything aside from revenue.

[mojo84]

I understand about officer discretion. My post was addressing the motivation behind how a situation is handled. I don't think it should be a quid pro quo type of motivation. It should be based on the merits of the individual and the situation. Your comment seemed to indicate a quid pro quo motivation. You may not have intended that. It's just the way it came across to me.