Opinions on the Lee Load-Master?

[NcongruNt]

So I'm looking to start reloading, and an looking for appropriate equipment. I am going to be reloading both handgun and rifle ammo. Specifically, I'll be loading 9x18 (Makarov), 9x19, 7.5x55 Swiss, and 7.62x54R. I'm also eventually planning on purchasing a 1911, so .45 will be in there as well. The Lee Load-Master seems to be a good kit.

I'm looking at the options for the kits, and only see 9x19 and .45 available out of my listed calibers. Checking die sets, all of the calibers I'm looking for are available, but there doesn't seem to be a listing for 9x18 in shell holders.

It seems awfully confusing trying to understand the operation of these machines and the separate parts. Even the manuals to the machines themselves don't shed much light. I'm generally good with technical gadgetry, but there's nothing explaining the sequence of events that goes on when using these machines. Even the parts listings on the web sites are arranged in a haphazard fashion.

I *think* I've got it understood now, mostly. I'm a little confused about the rifle dies. There's "Rifle Full Length Sizing Dies" and "Rifle Neck Sizing Dies", then of course the deluxe rifle die set which doesn't include my calibers.

So yeah. Anyone who can explain the parts and what I may need would be appreciated.

[nuparadigm]

So I'm looking to start reloading, and an looking for appropriate equipment. I am going to be reloading both handgun and rifle ammo. Specifically, I'll be loading 9x18 (Makarov), 9x19, 7.5x55 Swiss, and 7.62x54R. I'm also eventually planning on purchasing a 1911, so .45 will be in there as well. The Lee Load-Master seems to be a good kit.

I'm looking at the options for the kits, and only see 9x19 and .45 available out of my listed calibers. Checking die sets, all of the calibers I'm looking for are available, but there doesn't seem to be a listing for 9x18 in shell holders.

It seems awfully confusing trying to understand the operation of these machines and the separate parts. Even the manuals to the machines themselves don't shed much light. I'm generally good with technical gadgetry, but there's nothing explaining the sequence of events that goes on when using these machines. Even the parts listings on the web sites are arranged in a haphazard fashion.

I *think* I've got it understood now, mostly. I'm a little confused about the rifle dies. There's "Rifle Full Length Sizing Dies" and "Rifle Neck Sizing Dies", then of course the deluxe rifle die set which doesn't include my calibers.

So yeah. Anyone who can explain the parts and what I may need would be appreciated.

I'll make an initial small stab at an answer. Others can fill-in my many gaps.

Many years ago, I used a Lee progressive. It worked well for me but the "auto disc" powder measure gave me problems at times ... especially when I wanted to throw more or less powder than the disc's pre=drilled holes would allow.

If I recall, the machine uses a circular shellplate to hold the cartridge cases. Lee used to publish a cross-reference chart was to which cases each shellplate will fit (some will fit several different calibers). I'm really surprised that you haven't found a reference for 9X18.

Even if you don't buy it from them, Midway's site and paper catalog are fairly good at waltzing you through what shellplate fits which case(s).

The "kits" that Lee sells includes the press, shellplate, dies and powder measure. To change calibers on the press, all one needs to do is to change the shellplate, dies and the disc in the powder measure. Most, if not all, dies will fit into the Lee progressive press. For pistol calibers, I'd suggest that you get the carbide dies (you don't have to lube the cases if you use carbide dies).

For the rifle calibers, if you're loading cases that you have fired in YOUR rifle, all you'll need is the neck sizing die (this is because the case has been fire-formed in your chamber to fit your chamber). For semi-autos, RCBS also sells "small base" resizing dies. Don't worry about these if you're just starting out. BobCat can probably tell you more about the small base dies than I can.

Bottom line is you need to get one of us who lives near you to help you get set up and running. It's not difficult at all; it'll just make things run a whole lot smoother for you.

[Diode]

I have a load master and over all I am very happy with it. There is a learning curve and if will help if you find someone to help get you going.
The machine is very solid.

[Houston1944]

I have never used a Lee Loadmaster so I cannot give you any comments on it. I prefer single stage / turret presses for rifle and use my progressive press for pistol. I will try to give you a little more detail on “neck only� rifle dies.

You need to use the standard "full length" sizing dies if you are shooting a semi-auto or if you want to fire your reloads in more than one rifle. When full length sizing you must lube the brass to prevent it from sticking in the die. You also need to check the length after each sizing because constant resizing will eventually result in brass becoming too long and it must be trim to bring it back to design specs. Depending on a lot of variables this could occur after only one or two cycles.

If you are reloading for only one bolt action rifle then life gets a little easier because you now can get by with a "neck only" die. Neck only resizing does not require you to lube the brass and you can resize many more times without having to trim. Not having to lube brass and not having to trim very often eliminates my least favorites steps in reloading.

The above is only a general statement for most common rifle calibers designed with a shoulder and is not intended as a detail description of each step in the process. I don’t reload any straight wall rifle calibers so I will not give any comments regarding them.

[MoJo]

I have a Loadmaster and I've been satisfied with it. It was a little finicky to set up at first but, once you have everything going right it works very well. The primer dispenser is the weakest link in my opinion.

[Diode]

I have a Loadmaster and I've been satisfied with it. It was a little finicky to set up at first but, once you have everything going right it works very well. The primer dispenser is the weakest link in my opinion.

Agreed the primmer loader is a tad weak but once I learned to clear it all went well. I have a good stock of the little plastic parts in case I jam it up.
I need to find some .357 dies and get setup on a 2nd calliber

[Venus Pax]

I am VERY new to reloading. I'm so new, that I'm still waiting on the arrival of my Lee set-up.
I read this book that someone else here recommended. http://www.amazon.com/ABCs-Reloading/dp ... 05&sr=11-1

It has a lot of pictures, and actually walks the reader through the steps with pictures and subtitles.
Since I'm not a mechanically-wired individual, much of the book had me going "huh?" , but once I met with my dad and went through the application process, it all came together.

[NcongruNt]

Houston1944 & nuparadigm, thanks for the insight. This makes a lot more sense to me. I'll be loading for bolt-action rifles only. The 7.5 Swiss is only for one gun, so that's no biggie. I have 2 Mosin-Nagant rifles (an M44 and a 91/30) that I want to try out some reloading for. I suppose I'd have to load and maintain brass separately for those two, unless the chambers are the same, which is possible. They were made at the same arsenal about a year apart. No semi-auto... I don't think I'll have enough extra cash to go out and buy a Dragunov for a while yet. I really do want one, though. I've got an offer for a nice Romanian one from a friend for $1200

Another couple of questions:

The Load-Master says it has 5 stations. This seems to me that you can do multiple steps of reloading in progression with a single pull... hence it is progressive. This is seating the primer, necking a rifle case, loading the powder charge, seating a bullet, and crimping the case. Is this right? This begs the question... how does this work with a pistol cartridge, since there is no necking involved? Does it just do nothing on that stage?

[BobCat]

nuparadigm said,
"For the rifle calibers, if you're loading cases that you have fired in YOUR rifle, all you'll need is the neck sizing die (this is because the case has been fire-formed in your chamber to fit your chamber). For semi-autos, RCBS also sells "small base" resizing dies. Don't worry about these if you're just starting out. BobCat can probably tell you more about the small base dies than I can. "

He is right that you don't need small base dies, and that if you are reloading rifle cases shot in your bolt-action rifle you can just neck size to get the neck tension right. Even if you full-length resize, normal dies will work fine. Some people recommend small base dies for autoloaders to ensure chambering, but I've never found them necessary.

I can't tell you much more about small base dies than this: they are intended to size the casehead down even farther than standard dimensions, to make sure the cartridge will chamber in a semi-auto. I do not use them for .223 - I just use standard Lee .223 dies and my ammo chambers and shoots better than I can hold.

I do not know much about the Lee Loadmaster, but Lee equipment in general works well, even if some of it "feels" cheap and low-grade. I use Lee dies and have one single-stage Lee press set up for bullet seating only. No complaints.

You are in for a very good time, learning a lot of new things and making new friends / asking questions. And looking at a target you shot, with ammo you loaded, and seeing a bunch of bullet holes touching - you will get a kick out of that! Have fun!

Regards,
Andrew

PS I took so long writing this that you added a post with a question. I'll take a crack at answering.

The stages are often set up as:
1) Resize and deprime
2) seat new primer - sometimes this is on the downstroke from the first step, and is at the same "station" depending on the press.
3) powder charge
4) bullet seat
5 crimp

For rifles, sometimes no crimp is applied - depends on how *you* want to proceed.

For pistol ammo, someitmes the bullet seat and crimp are applied at the same station. Many (all?) seating dies have a crimp shoulder for this, but the crimp is being applied in the last stages of bullet seating so the bullet is still moving into the case mouth. Cleaner to seat and then apply the crimp in the next station.

I think that what you are calling "necking" the case is what we think of as neck sizing. If the entire case goes into the resizing die, that's full-length resizing. If only the neck is sized (different die or different die adjustment), that's neck sizing. The benefit of neck sizing is that the brass (case body) is not "worked" more than necessary, so it lasts longer before it cracks. The downside is the cartidge may not chamber in a different rifle since it is sized to the chamber it was fired in.

I better shut up now - someone else can probably clarify as needed.

[Houston1944]

First I want to recommend that you get a good reloading manual. About all I can do from here is just give you a broad brush reply. The Speer or Hornady manual will get you into more helpful details.

I do not crimp my rifle loads for bolt action rifles, I simply size, measure, prime, drop powder and seat the bullet. The first three steps I do in batches. I only use match primers in rifle loads because it gives me increased accuracy for very little increase in cost. Depending on the caliber I seat my bullets from .005 to .025 off the land. (A manual will be very helpful in describing this process). There is a lot of trial and error involved in finding that "perfect load" for each rifle, but that to me is the fun part of reloading rifle. Don't count on being able to neck only size just because the rifles are made by the same company.

The straight wall pistol caliber process is different from rifle loads. I don't know about the Lee but here are the stages of my Dillon 650.
#1 - decap and size
#2 - prime, bell and drop powder.
#3 - powder check station
#4 - seat bullet
#5 - crimp

I have never measured a pistol case and certainly have never trimmed one.

[NcongruNt]

So I've got a somewhat oddball question, as we're on the topic of the difference between Rifle and Pistol reloading. I've been looking at the CZ-52 as a fun range gun. The only real thing holding me back is the availability of ammo. Reloading should eliminate this problem, but I'm a bit confused. 7.62x25 is a pistol cartridge, but unlike any other I know, as it is necked. My first inclination would be that it is treated as a rifle cartridge. Lee appears to make a die set for this caliber, but as a pistol set. There's no full-length sizing die set. Wouldn't this be necessary, as this is a necked cartridge fed through a semi-auto gun? Anyone have any experience reloading this stuff that can shed some light?

[BobCat]

The Lee die will be a full-length resizing die. You can reload 7.62x25 just like any other pistol cartridge. Finding .30 cal pistol bullets the right weight might not be simple but I'm sure they're out there if you look.

Watch out for surplus ammo because most (all?) of it is Berdan primed. The primer pocket has two flash holes next to each other instead of one, in the middle, as in the familiar Boxer primer. Long-story-short, these cases are not reloadable. You can get a tin of 1,200+ from AIM surplus for around $120 plus shipping - try http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/1980 ... rplus.html cut / paste if it wraps and does not work.

Just my 2¢ worth. You can read up on the reputedly brittle firing pins in these guns at makarov.com - I'm not trying to discourage you at all, just want you to be informed.

edited for spelling
edited for misinformation (it is not steel-cased, it is brass - but still Berdan primed).

[NcongruNt]

The Lee die will be a full-length resizing die. You can reload 7.62x25 just like any other pistol cartridge. Finding .30 cal pistol bullets the right weight might not be simple but I'm sure they're out there if you look.

Watch out for surplus ammo because most (all?) of it is Berdan primed. The primer pocket has two flash holes next to each other instead of one, in the middle, as in the familiar Boxer primer. Long-story-short, these cases are not reloadable. You can get a tin of 1,200+ from AIM surplus for around $120 plus shipping - try http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/1980 ... rplus.html cut / paste if it wraps and does not work.

Just my 2¢ worth. You can read up on the reputedly brittle firing pins in these guns at makarov.com - I'm not trying to discourage you at all, just want you to be informed.

edited for spelling
edited for misinformation (it is not steel-cased, it is brass - but still Berdan primed).

Thanks for the info on the dies.

As for bullets, Midway has them, and even some Hornady XTP that looks to be the correct size!

Having Eastern-European surplus rifles already, I'm well aware of the Berdan vs. Boxer issue. Thanks for the heads-up, though.

I just took at look around several sites and found that availability of the 7.62x25 has gotten better since I last checked a couple of months ago. Maybe it has something to do with more CZ-52s becoming available again.

I've read up on these pistols, and am aware of the firing pin issues. Makarov.com seems to non-brittle replacements in stock.

I did find another necked handgun cartridge after I thought about it... sortof. The 7.62 Nagant pistol uses a tapered case to achieve it's nifty sealed-chamber revolverness. Not exactly necked, and looking at what is involved in reloading/creating proper casings for this caliber, it's a little more work than I want to put into a handgun load. I still wanna get one of those revolvers, though. They're kinda neat, and super cheap!

[nuparadigm]

As far as the 7.62 Nagant goes. It think Fiocchi sells loaded rounds. Save all the brass you can against the day that you decide that you'll have to start loading it.