AR help

[DocV]

Spike's Tactical is good to go. That price looks pretty good to me too.

Thanks Doc for all your help. I looked at what you suggested than stumbled upon that somehow.

I will say this, and I am sure I wont get sympathy from experienced builders, furniture for these things are ridiculous!

I was going to ask what grips and stocks you had in mind. I have had some good luck finding used, inexpensive, furniture from one of the local gun stores that must have a fairly good business selling part upgrades. The great thing about the Lego-like AR is those plastic parts go on, and come off, fairly easily and I guess some folks just trade-in old stuff when they upgrade.

[1s1k52]

MOE or CTR stock because the ACS is ridiculous right now for my budget. I have just the standard grip which sucks. I want to end up with a 13 keymod rail.

I have read so many things about the rail systems twisting around on a gun. Larue seems to have a pretty good following and they seem cheaper than the rest. I was talking to a friend of mine who lives out of state and he said I shouldn't build my first upper because of barrel head space? He knows his crap so I guess I will listen to him. This may make finishing the gun take longer. Seems like WHEN I have 500-600 extra which is few and far between it gets sucked up and out the door for other things. Being an adult is for the birds.

[eureka40]

Checking head space is important, but it is very easy to do. All you need are the two gauges, a go gauge and a no go gauge. You'll also need to disassemble your bolt and put it back into the carrier to check the head space. Watch this............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWTpPMYW-CA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You will learn much doing these easy steps yourself. You can get the gauges at Brownells, Midway, etc...........

[DocV]

Adulthood is great - I can go to bed as late, or as early, as I want :) Fiscal responsibility sucks ;)

Just for grins, I put together a parts list from Bravo Company's site for a plain upper build.
Forward Assist - 16.95
Port Cover 8.95
Demo Upper 74.95
Barrel Nut 8.95
Barrel 16" 239.00
Gas Tube 13.00
Delta Ring 10.50
FSB 29.95
Flash Hider A2 8.00
Crush Washer 2.00
Total 412.25

A BCM prebuilt upper with the same configuration is priced at 459.
You save $46.75 by building it yourself. But, of course, you have to tool up.
The advantages of a build have nothing to do with money as if you buy bit by bit you will get hit
by the shipping costs. All that said, I shop sales and add essential parts to orders I was going to make anyway :)

Oh, BTW, you can also buy yourself a few small denomination Brownell's gift cards and save them
until you get enough for your parts. I'm an old codger - and life with Mrs DocV has made me very, shall we say,
creative when it comes to funding gun parts.

[1s1k52]

Adulthood is great - I can go to bed as late, or as early, as I want :) Fiscal responsibility sucks ;)

Just for grins, I put together a parts list from Bravo Company's site for a plain upper build.
Forward Assist - 16.95
Port Cover 8.95
Demo Upper 74.95
Barrel Nut 8.95
Barrel 16" 239.00
Gas Tube 13.00
Delta Ring 10.50
FSB 29.95
Flash Hider A2 8.00
Crush Washer 2.00
Total 412.25

A BCM prebuilt upper with the same configuration is priced at 459.
You save $46.75 by building it yourself. But, of course, you have to tool up.
The advantages of a build have nothing to do with money as if you buy bit by bit you will get hit
by the shipping costs. All that said, I shop sales and add essential parts to orders I was going to make anyway :)

Oh, BTW, you can also buy yourself a few small denomination Brownell's gift cards and save them
until you get enough for your parts. I'm an old codger - and life with Mrs DocV has made me very, shall we say,
creative when it comes to funding gun parts.

not bad. thats with no furniture right? what barrel was that?

as far as tools go still trying to build those. I am open to which armorers wrench to get. The obvious cool thing about tools is once you have bought them you have them. So maybe I should do that first. Like getting a vise I planned on getting months ago.

[eureka40]

^^ What DocV wrote^^ BCM is great to deal with.

Also here's a great deal on stripped Texas Flag lowers at Runner Runner........

https://www.runnerrunnerguns.com/Produc ... BLEM-MAJOR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got one and it is very difficult to see any blems. 64 bucks is a great deal!!

[DocV]

....

not bad. thats with no furniture right? what barrel was that?

That is the BCM 16" standard 5.56 M4 barrel. It is listed as carbine, so you might want to wait for a mid-length.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-M ... %20std.htm
I actually like the carbine length but mid-length is also good.
Also check the other sites for deals :)

as far as tools go still trying to build those. I am open to which armorers wrench to get. The obvious cool thing about tools is once you have bought them you have them. So maybe I should do that first. Like getting a vise I planned on getting months ago.

Yup, pretty much, unless you break one (Don't ask). Yup, tooling up is good. As to the armorer's wrench, if you want to use rails first see if they need anything special - some have proprietary tools. Otherwise, just a standard multitool, such as the one from DPMS, will do. Peruse the Brownell's reviews before you buy one though as quality can vary. Oh, roll pin holders are good but I have had some poor experience with quality on the one's that I bought.

Oh, you do have a torque wrench, correct? If you are going to do anything exotic, such as installing and staking your bolt's carrier key, you will need a wrench that can measure in inch pounds. Google "TM 9-1005-319-23&P" or "11W3-5-5-42" to get the mil specs.

Edit: Did you see the PSA blem complete upper with BCG and charging handle on sale for $369? Mighty tempting...

[1s1k52]

....

not bad. thats with no furniture right? what barrel was that?

That is the BCM 16" standard 5.56 M4 barrel. It is listed as carbine, so you might want to wait for a mid-length.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-M ... %20std.htm
I actually like the carbine length but mid-length is also good.
Also check the other sites for deals :)

as far as tools go still trying to build those. I am open to which armorers wrench to get. The obvious cool thing about tools is once you have bought them you have them. So maybe I should do that first. Like getting a vise I planned on getting months ago.

Yup, pretty much, unless you break one (Don't ask). Yup, tooling up is good. As to the armorer's wrench, if you want to use rails first see if they need anything special - some have proprietary tools. Otherwise, just a standard multitool, such as the one from DPMS, will do. Peruse the Brownell's reviews before you buy one though as quality can vary. Oh, roll pin holders are good but I have had some poor experience with quality on the one's that I bought.

Oh, you do have a torque wrench, correct? If you are going to do anything exotic, such as installing and staking your bolt's carrier key, you will need a wrench that can measure in inch pounds. Google "TM 9-1005-319-23&P" or "11W3-5-5-42" to get the mil specs.

Edit: Did you see the PSA blem complete upper with BCG and charging handle on sale for $369? Mighty tempting...

No I dont have a torque wrench. I thought BCG come staked already? The barrel determines length of the gas system? See still learning.

My dream build is a 16" 1/8 twist black nitrade barrel and BCG 6 pound AR (not including optics)

I always want a suppressed SBR 300 blk. with the supressor mostly inside the rail...dig that look for some reason.

Clearly this build wont be that.

No I didnt see the uppers on sale. I DID however see their complete blem lowers for 149.00 two weeks ago AFTER I bought the blem lower and LPK.

Palmetto sort of frustrates me with their lack of detail on what is on their products. I personally like knowing what I am buying regardless of what I know it does or the quality. If that makes sense?

Clearly there is was more to building the upper than I suspected. This whole time I thought the lower was more difficult.

When I went to buy the blem lower, as in the day of, They had complete PSA rifle 1/7 twist chrome moly with BCG/handle/ Kit /lower etc the COMPLETE rifle down from 7 something to 500.00 and some change. It was posted at noon and sold out in 30 minutes I found out later on.

[DocV]

You will need/want a torque wrench for the barrel nut. Nothing fancy, check the torque specs and get a cheap wrench from Harbor Freight or Amazon.

Complete BCG's have the key and most are staked. Not all are staked well - or to mil spec.

Barrels come in three lengths of gas tube: Carbine, Mid-length, and rifle. The barrel manufacturer determines which one they will create.

I do not see many rifle-length tubes on 16" barrels but recall someone made one at one time. My guess is the rifle-length tube on 16" is prone to timing challenges.

A mid-length tube is softer shooting than a carbine but the buffer can offset the harder recoil to some degree.

The upper is a piece of cake once you get the process down.

[1s1k52]

You will need/want a torque wrench for the barrel nut. Nothing fancy, check the torque specs and get a cheap wrench from Harbor Freight or Amazon.

Complete BCG's have the key and most are staked. Not all are staked well - or to mil spec.

Barrels come in three lengths of gas tube: Carbine, Mid-length, and rifle. The barrel manufacturer determines which one they will create.

I do not see many rifle-length tubes on 16" barrels but recall someone made one at one time. My guess is the rifle-length tube on 16" is prone to timing challenges.

A mid-length tube is softer shooting than a carbine but the buffer can offset the harder recoil to some degree.

The upper is a piece of cake once you get the process down.

ld

Yeah i know the different lengths. I didn't know the barrel was what made it though I thought it was the gas system, hard to explain how I THOUGHT it was. I understand now though.

from what I have read I prefer mid length. Clearly at this point something is better than nothing.

So back to barrels. The PSA upper has a chrome molly barrel 1/7 twist. What makes the BCM so expensive? on paper they look identical? or are they and the PSA deal is just THAT good?

because at that price I would just buy the 300 blk. I am currently googling staking and the process behind it

[eureka40]

Just to throw this out there....Buy a Black Hole Polygonal Barrel and get a free stripped upper.

http://www.surplusammo.com/barrels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These barrels are very interesting, since they are poly, they don't have standard rifling. I plan to use one on my current build and get the upper thrown in for grins.

[1s1k52]

Just to throw this out there....Buy a Black Hole Polygonal Barrel and get a free stripped upper.

http://www.surplusammo.com/barrels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These barrels are very interesting, since they are poly, they don't have standard rifling. I plan to use one on my current build and get the upper thrown in for grins.

Are these pretty proven? they are more expensive than standard barrels?

[DocV]

You will need/want a torque wrench for the barrel nut. Nothing fancy, check the torque specs and get a cheap wrench from Harbor Freight or Amazon.

Complete BCG's have the key and most are staked. Not all are staked well - or to mil spec.

Barrels come in three lengths of gas tube: Carbine, Mid-length, and rifle. The barrel manufacturer determines which one they will create.

I do not see many rifle-length tubes on 16" barrels but recall someone made one at one time. My guess is the rifle-length tube on 16" is prone to timing challenges.

A mid-length tube is softer shooting than a carbine but the buffer can offset the harder recoil to some degree.

The upper is a piece of cake once you get the process down.

ld

Yeah i know the different lengths. I didn't know the barrel was what made it though I thought it was the gas system, hard to explain how I THOUGHT it was. I understand now though.

from what I have read I prefer mid length. Clearly at this point something is better than nothing.

So back to barrels. The PSA upper has a chrome molly barrel 1/7 twist. What makes the BCM so expensive? on paper they look identical? or are they and the PSA deal is just THAT good?

because at that price I would just buy the 300 blk. I am currently googling staking and the process behind it

Mid-length is a good starting point. It is difficult to know what the differences in prices are. From Internet rumors, PSA's Chrome/Moly barrels are from Wilson. But those are only rumors. Other rumors say FN. BCM, like myself, seem to be sticklers for mil spec and advertise their barrels are High Pressure tested and MPI. From my observations, BCM headspaces their barrel assemblies but you still want to check headspace.

Also, PSA does not specify what type of BCG or charging handle their pre-built upper comes with.

Staking is, basically, just peening some metal to the bolt heads to ensure they stay put. If you build your own BCG, you can peen with a specialized tool, or use a punch. As you know, if the milspec says stake, this old Airman stakes.

[eureka40]

Just to throw this out there....Buy a Black Hole Polygonal Barrel and get a free stripped upper.

http://www.surplusammo.com/barrels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These barrels are very interesting, since they are poly, they don't have standard rifling. I plan to use one on my current build and get the upper thrown in for grins.

Are these pretty proven? they are more expensive than standard barrels?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, poly barrels have been around a long time. Glock among others use this type of barrel. Easier to clean, less gas escapes through rifling which leads to higher muzzle velocities. There are pros and cons with different barrels.

[1s1k52]

You will need/want a torque wrench for the barrel nut. Nothing fancy, check the torque specs and get a cheap wrench from Harbor Freight or Amazon.

Complete BCG's have the key and most are staked. Not all are staked well - or to mil spec.

Barrels come in three lengths of gas tube: Carbine, Mid-length, and rifle. The barrel manufacturer determines which one they will create.

I do not see many rifle-length tubes on 16" barrels but recall someone made one at one time. My guess is the rifle-length tube on 16" is prone to timing challenges.

A mid-length tube is softer shooting than a carbine but the buffer can offset the harder recoil to some degree.

The upper is a piece of cake once you get the process down.

ld

Yeah i know the different lengths. I didn't know the barrel was what made it though I thought it was the gas system, hard to explain how I THOUGHT it was. I understand now though.

from what I have read I prefer mid length. Clearly at this point something is better than nothing.

So back to barrels. The PSA upper has a chrome molly barrel 1/7 twist. What makes the BCM so expensive? on paper they look identical? or are they and the PSA deal is just THAT good?

because at that price I would just buy the 300 blk. I am currently googling staking and the process behind it

Mid-length is a good starting point. It is difficult to know what the differences in prices are. From Internet rumors, PSA's Chrome/Moly barrels are from Wilson. But those are only rumors. Other rumors say FN. BCM, like myself, seem to be sticklers for mil spec and advertise their barrels are High Pressure tested and MPI. From my observations, BCM headspaces their barrel assemblies but you still want to check headspace.

Also, PSA does not specify what type of BCG or charging handle their pre-built upper comes with.

Staking is, basically, just peening some metal to the bolt heads to ensure they stay put. If you build your own BCG, you can peen with a specialized tool, or use a punch. As you know, if the milspec says stake, this old Airman stakes.

Is there different staking? in other words just because something says its staked could they mean it wasnt staked well?

Little background on me. I used to build my own guitar cabinets and dealt with all my own gear (when I played) so I am aware of things not needed and the most expensive isnt always the best. But quality is quality and anyone can advertise anything. Problem is my wallet then could handle trial and error. Now..not so much. Hence why the start of this thread. When I "google" it basically leads me to a thread after thread of opinions (opinions on the internet?). So just looking for some factual things to watch out for.

You mentioned head space as I did before. Looking into that now.

For the record I have short several ARs. However, without knowing what was in what no real way to know how to take things. EXCEPT I did find out real quick I am not a fan of Bushmasters and M&Ps were ok. DD was the nicest thing I have been able to touch but never fire.