Work in a high rise, building entrance is 30.06

[jiggerachi]

Hypothetical question here since I really don't feel the need to carry at work, but here goes.

Work in a high rise building, the entrance is 30.06 posted. The lobby is connected to an underground public transport depot.
I work 3rd shift weekends, meaning when I'm here, i'm the only person on our floor, and in the entire building save for a couple security guys. I monitor a data center so our floor is restricted access on the elevator after hours, with higher levels of security at my station. Initially I never even thought about it, but a few months ago we had an incident. An unidentified person made his way (randomly I guess) all the way onto our floor lobby, and was attempting to tailgate his way into the higher security area. He was noticed, confronted, and escorted to the building lobby.

Few days later the same guy was on the news following an armed robbery on said mass transit system that's connected to our lobby. Reviewing tapes on our floor and the building lobby showed him ducking security rounds, trying to avoid cameras, and tailgating people into elevators/floors. This was during business hours when the elevator access is open so we assumed he randomly pushed floor buttons or followed someone.

After this I jokingly told my boss I was going to start carrying up here. He told me to go ahead, since technically i'm responsible for maintaining security of the restricted areas while i'm on shift, even with the 30.06 signs that he argued aren't legal anyway(font and wording he said, haven't measured but looks ok to me???). Started me thinking but still haven't wanted to, i'm not a security guard and it's highly unlikely anyone could make it this far.

Recently we've had a lot of people in & out for construction on our floor, propping doors open & such. Had me revisiting the whole thing, thinking about the legality of carrying up here, whatever gray areas exist(possibly none). Would it fall into the sort of posted mall gray areas, where you're legal to carry in the store, but not to the store through the mall type of thing? I carry on the way to work since a lot of weird stuff goes down around midnight in downtown, and the lobby of the building is one door away from a big mass transport station, but leave it in the car. I'm not a security guard so I don't necessarily feel the need to go all cowboy on my floor, but if someone made it on the floor behind the cleaning crew or whatever it would be my responsibility to confront them....

Thanks for reading.
Edit, to clarify I am in no capacity employed as a security officer.

[jmra]

If your job includes security duties you can not legally carry under your CHL while serving in that capacity.

[Charlies.Contingency]

If your job includes security duties you can not legally carry under your CHL while serving in that capacity.

Agreed, you can only carry as a security guard in OC fashion, if you are a level III or up certified guard, with a pocket card, working for a properly licensed company. I will provide the statutes for this below. You CANNOT conceal carry as a "guard function." If you so wished to carry legally, it has nothing to do with you being a guard, or having any responsibility to act as so with your CHL. You can of course protect your business if you legally follow the laws, but you are not a security guard. That requires licensing, certification, and registration. Be wary about telling anybody that are a security guard, or anything else that may indicate you are, because there is such thing as impersonating a security officer.

Too much information to try to post. Refer to Occupations Code, Title 10. OCCUPATIONS RELATED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY CHAPTER 1702. PRIVATE SECURITY.
https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+c ... channel=sb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for using your CHL for "guard functions," here's the relevant information:

Discussed before here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 1702.169. FIREARM RESTRICTIONS. A commissioned security officer other than a person acting as a personal protection officer may not carry a firearm unless:
(1) the security officer is:
(A) engaged in the performance of duties as a security officer; or
(B) traveling to or from the place of assignment;
(2) the security officer wears a distinctive uniform indicating that the individual is a security officer; and
(3) the firearm is in plain view.

[jiggerachi]

To clarify, I am NOT a security guard, I do not have security duties, I handle monitoring for a data center, tucked away in a room behind secure doors. However if someone is on the floor who is not supposed to be it's my job to talk to them and find out what they're doing. No physical security duties, but I guess a sort of responsibility. I don't pretend to be security in any effect up here, we have security guards on site for that.

I've never once considered carrying to protect the premises, only for personal protection, sort of what would happen if a crackhead made it up here and I bumped into them or something. I have no duties nor expectations to run toward a fight up here.

Good info though. If my situation falls under that category then i'll consider it case closed. I doubt it does but the wording may, i'm not exactly sure, but I am sure that "security officer" is nowhere in my title or responsibilities that I know of. More so i'm the guy to ask for credentials and not let people in to the high security area, handle keys, etc.

[Charlies.Contingency]

To clarify, I am NOT a security guard, I do not have security duties, I handle monitoring for a data center, tucked away in a room behind secure doors. However if someone is on the floor who is not supposed to be it's my job to talk to them and find out what they're doing. No physical security duties, but I guess a sort of responsibility. I don't pretend to be security in any effect up here, we have security guards on site for that.

I've never once considered carrying to protect the premises, only for personal protection, sort of what would happen if a crackhead made it up here and I bumped into them or something. I have no duties nor expectations to run toward a fight up here.

Good info though.

I wanted to make sure it was clear from the get-go that a guard is something very distinctive. If you're just working, and you want the ability to defend yourself, business, others, than that is fine. Gas station clerks don't have to be a security guard to have a 12g shotgun underneath the register.

I understand what you're saying a little bit better now, but I suggest confirming with your company about you carrying. If they prohibit the carry of firearms, you can still lose your job, even if the sign is wrong to my understanding. The sign keeps you out of the building, no sign doesn't mean you can carry at work. Confirm with your company if you want the most secure answer.

[jiggerachi]

^Thanks. I understand the losing the job aspect.

The main question is in the legal aspects, since my company leases space in the building that is 30.06 posted. I technically have to walk through a 30.06 area to get up to our leased space up on xx floor. The way I am thinking is that it would be legal to carry inside our leased space, but not through the building lobby.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Other information regarding Carrying at work from the Labor Code:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /LA.52.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SUBCHAPTER G. RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058 (S.B. 321), Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.


Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:

(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or

(2) apply to:

(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;

(B) a school district;

(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;

(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;

(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or

(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:

(i) that contains the physical plant;

(ii) that is not open to the public; and

(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.

(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058 (S.B. 321), Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.

[jmra]

To clarify, I am NOT a security guard, I do not have security duties, I handle monitoring for a data center, tucked away in a room behind secure doors. However if someone is on the floor who is not supposed to be it's my job to talk to them and find out what they're doing. No physical security duties, but I guess a sort of responsibility. I don't pretend to be security in any effect up here, we have security guards on site for that.

I've never once considered carrying to protect the premises, only for personal protection, sort of what would happen if a crackhead made it up here and I bumped into them or something. I have no duties nor expectations to run toward a fight up here.

Good info though. If my situation falls under that category then i'll consider it case closed. I doubt it does but the wording may, i'm not exactly sure, but I am sure that "security officer" is nowhere in my title or responsibilities that I know of. More so i'm the guy to ask for credentials and not let people in to the high security area, handle keys, etc.

I was keying on this quote from your OP:
"since technically my job duty does include physical security while i'm on shift"
Don't mean to repeat myself, but if you are serving in any security capacity whatsoever you fall under the regulations previously posted in this thread. Note also that you have now stated in writing on a public forum that security is part of your job duties. Prosecutors and ambulance chasing lawyers love this kind of material. Probably will never be an issue, but in your shoes if I decided to carry at work I would want something placed in my employment file that I do not nor am I expected to serve a security function as part of my employment.

[jimlongley]

I would have to ask if the employer owns the building or is just one of many tenants? The quote from the labor code above only applies to employers and does not address the issue of a building that is not owned, or leased in entirety, by the employer. If the building owner has posted the building 30.06, preventing ALL CHLs employed by ALL tenants from carrying within the building, it is probably enforceable, if exceedingly mean.

I would put it on a par with the Mills Corporation posting all of their malls and various tenants inviting CHLs who write to them telling them why they don't shop there, and telling them that their store is not posted and to feel free to carry there.

Despite the invitation to carry, the sign applies to the whole building and in the absence of case law to the contrary, if discovered you will probably get a free ride with pretty silver bracelets.

So, assuming the worst case, that the building is owned by an entity other than your employer, but your boss has told you to carry away (the "security duties" issue aside) and you arrive at work Saturday night zero dark thirty, and part way into your shift you must answer a call of nature. While you are thus engaged, being careful not to drop your carry gun, one of the uniformed security officers comes in just checking around, and as you re-attire yourself he notices the heavy presence, maybe you banged it against the stall or something, and decides to investigate. It is my opinion that you would be in a heap of trouble. Remember, the security guys are paid to be of a suspicious nature.

[jiggerachi]

I was keying on this quote from your OP: ...


Probably will never be an issue, but in your shoes if I decided to carry at work I would want something placed in my employment file that I do not nor am I expected to serve a security function as part of my employment.

I further edited for clarity. Typed it fast and can see how it was a misleading choice of words. Thanks for your insight. I'd rather leave the issue alone and not bother vs go poking around HR for clarification.

[jiggerachi]

I would have to ask if the employer owns the building or is just one of many tenants? The quote from the labor code above only applies to employers and does not address the issue of a building that is not owned, or leased in entirety, by the employer. If the building owner has posted the building 30.06, preventing ALL CHLs employed by ALL tenants from carrying within the building, it is probably enforceable, if exceedingly mean.

I would put it on a par with the Mills Corporation posting all of their malls and various tenants inviting CHLs who write to them telling them why they don't shop there, and telling them that their store is not posted and to feel free to carry there.

Despite the invitation to carry, the sign applies to the whole building and in the absence of case law to the contrary, if discovered you will probably get a free ride with pretty silver bracelets.

So, assuming the worst case, that the building is owned by an entity other than your employer, but your boss has told you to carry away (the "security duties" issue aside) and you arrive at work Saturday night zero dark thirty, and part way into your shift you must answer a call of nature. While you are thus engaged, being careful not to drop your carry gun, one of the uniformed security officers comes in just checking around, and as you re-attire yourself he notices the heavy presence, maybe you banged it against the stall or something, and decides to investigate. It is my opinion that you would be in a heap of trouble. Remember, the security guys are paid to be of a suspicious nature.

The building is not owned by my company. I'd never want to run afoul of the law regardless of the chance of getting caught, that kinda defeats the whole purpose of getting a license. If there's no work around then i'm not going to bother. Was just always curious of the "real" situation vs the posted situation with regard to the tenant/owners rights; clarifying in the exact manner as your mentioned Mills Corporation policies.