Question for lawyers about charges against Baltimore cops...

[The Annoyed Man]

This is not intended to be a discussion about the dustup over the arrest and death of Freddie Gray, and the subsequent charges against the 6 Baltimore officers. It's just that I was reading an LA Times article about what legal experts (presumably in L.A.) think the odds are of the officers actually being convicted of the more serious charges, and that sparked a question in my mind about Texas law.

Here is the article I am reading: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bal ... tml#page=1

In paragraph 5, the article says:

The most serious charge, against the driver of the van, Officer Ceasar Goodson, is second-degree “depraved heart’’ murder, which involves a special degree of reckless indifference. But proving that charge beyond a reasonable doubt is a significant challenge, according to defense lawyers and former prosecutors.

The phrase "'depraved heart' murder" got my attention. Can anyone define what kinds of things would be considered "a special degree of reckless indifference"; AND, does Texas have any enhancement to charges analogous to "depraved heart" in our laws, what is it called here, and if so, in what kind of circumstances would it be applied?

If others want to comment or have some "inside ball" knowledge of the subject, feel free to opine, but I was particularly wondering what members of the Texas Bar would say about it.

And, to make it related to CHL, unless you do something really REALLY stupid, is a CHL ever likely to face a similar enhancement to charges in the event of a self-defense shooting?

I'm not worried. This is more of an intellectual exercise than anything else.

(Mods, I wasn't sure what forum to put this in. Please move if necessary.)

[cheezit]

I read something about a failure to buckle his seat belt, which is/was aginst dept policy.
Beyond that I know not.

[WildBill]

Here is what Alan Dershowitz has to say:

Alan Dershowitz really went after Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby today for charging the six cops involved in the death of Freddie Gray, saying it was entirely based on politics and “crowd control.” Dershowitz lamented that “this is a very sad day for justice” and told Steve Malzberg that Mosby acted out of a “desire to prevent riots.” It will be “virtually impossible,” he predicted, for the six officers involved to get a fair trial.

And as for murder charges, Dershowitz said there’s “no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder” and “this is a show trial.” He predicted that Mosby might get removed as prosecutor and Baltimore citizens may get upset if and/or when they “move to a place with a different demographic.” He concluded that it’s “unlikely they’ll get any convictions in this case” and if they do they’ll likely “be reversed on appeal.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-dershow ... r-justice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[C-dub]

Depraved Heart Murder Definition:
Where an individual under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby caused the death of another person.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/ ... urder.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is roughly what I was thinking it might be. The thought that someone was so indifferent to another that they did something so careless or reckless because of who they are that it caused great risk to their life and did actually result in their death.

On another note: I thought that buckling them in was not only department policy, but also state law for all passengers.

[The Annoyed Man]

The thing for me is, failing to buckle someone in comes under, at worst, a heading of common negligence/forgetfulness.......in other words, a screwup yes, but "depraved heart"? No. That seems like a big stretch. If we have a "depraved heart" definition in Texas law, it is hard for me to imagine that it would be applicable to a similar situation.

Do we have such a thing in Texas as a "depraved heart" augmentation on a negligent homicide charge?

[C-dub]

That's why I and apparently, Dershowitz, both think it will be very difficult to prove.

[mojo84]

It may have been added because the prosecutor thinks the injuries were intentionally caused while the guy was in handcuffs and aid was not offered once it was realized he was seriously injured.

Just a guess on my part.

[baldeagle]

What I don't understand is how his neck got broken. And how the driver of the paddy wagon is the one being charged with murder. There is clearly more to this story than what the media is telling us.

[mojo84]

From what I heard yesterday, it's because they think the guy was cuffed and the driver took him on a "rough" ride where he was being thrown and jostled about in the back of the van. Probably modern day equivalent of dragging someone behind a horse with a rope.

[C-dub]

From what I heard yesterday, it's because they think the guy was cuffed and the driver took him on a "rough" ride where he was being thrown and jostled about in the back of the van. Probably modern day equivalent of dragging someone behind a horse with a rope.

Should be easy enough to prove or disprove. Just ask the other guy strapped in if he thought it was a rough ride.

[mojo84]

From what I heard yesterday, it's because they think the guy was cuffed and the driver took him on a "rough" ride where he was being thrown and jostled about in the back of the van. Probably modern day equivalent of dragging someone behind a horse with a rope.

Should be easy enough to prove or disprove. Just ask the other guy strapped in if he thought it was a rough ride.

Wish it were that easy. He's already changed and recanted his story a time or two. If it was easy, we wouldn't have the situations in he first place much less the subsequent chaos.

[stroo]

I haven't practiced any criminal law in years so my opinion is worth the paper it is written on and yes I realize I am not writing on paper.

This is a political prosecution intended to meet the demands of the crowds in Baltimore. If the case is removed to a jurisdiction outside of Baltimore, they might get a conviction on one of the lesser charges but I doubt they get convictions on the murder charge nor on most of the charges. The prosecution might not get a conviction on any of the charges.

If the case is not removed and is heard by a Baltimore jury, all bets are off. Anything could happen.

[baldeagle]

Remember, the people who serve on juries are not the ones who also riot in the streets. Witness the Trayvon Martin case. Even though that was a purely political show, for which the prosecutors should be ashamed of themselves AND disbarred, the jury still found him not guilty.

[philip964]

Like all the other recent high profile events. We have no real solid information.

First thing I have heard is that the Police say that a large portion of people arrested ask to be taken to the hospital rather than to the jail. Will this be the new norm in Baltimore? I betcha it is already starting.

Second, I heard that the suspect had drugs in his system.

Third, he is a police informant, someone they knew, thus they didn't seat belt him.

Forth, he injured himself. Is there any proof of this rough ride everyone mentioned? Was the other passenger injured or did he speak of a rough ride. Was there a bolt that matched his injuries in the van? Was his blood on it?

Fifth, no mention of the hospital care he received. He lived for a week. What did he die of? Would taking him immediately to the hospital have saved his life? Certain situations we call "hurry cases" where time is of the essence ie: heart attack. Spinal injury is not one of those. Since he arrived alive, did his spinal injury get worse in the hospital? Why? Could there have been an accident moving him in the hospital that made his condition much worse?

Sixth, no one has mentioned that the police beat him. So I assume they did not. The only two explanations for the spinal injury are the rough ride and self inflicted. Having never been in a paddy wagon, I am still having trouble seeing how this is more than just being uncomfortable.

Seventh, did he really have an outstanding warrant?

Will we have to wait until there is a trial two years from now to answer all of this?

[PaJ]

And the questions can go on.

1. When riding in the vehicle, if it was that rough and he was restrained (hand cuffs and leg irons - not seat belt), he'd have ended up on the floor - not flying violently around in the compartment.

2. In order to fly backwards into the latch (assuming the latch was on the back door of the compartment), the vehicle would have to be rear ended. Nothing has indicated that happened.

3. What was his condition at the two stops? At one of them they put him in leg irons. So unless facts prove otherwise, it is reasonable to assume he didn't need medical attention at that time. So the injury happened after that?

4. Given his state when the officers were dragging him to the wagon (screaming out and dragging his feet), was he already hurt at that time? Nothing in the videos indicate excessive force during the arrest, so was it a pre-existing injury that was exacerbated during the arrest and ride to police station?

5. If there was an existing injury when loaded into the wagon, the movement of the vehicle - whether in a seat belt or not -- could have made the injury much worse. Race car drivers heads are secured to keep the weight of their head and helmet from breaking their neck in a crash. If he was already injured, just the weight of his head could make the injury worse. Think about how difficult it is to hold your head up when riding a carnival ride that puts even mild G forces side to side on your head.

I believe the officers will eventually be exonerated. I don't see how the charges can be proven based on the evidence presented so far. While they may have made mistakes, hind site is always 20/20. Making a mistake doesn't mean the person is a criminal or has any ill intent.

My bigger fear is all of this is making it more difficult for LEO's to do their job. When everything they do is questioned based on 20 second iphone videos and media reports, it sends the wrong message. While there are some POs who are crooked, they aren't out gunning down people (in my opinion). There is no evidence of a wide spread "mafia" of policemen.

I've tried to teach my kids that people in authority (police, teachers, etc) deserve our respect even when we disagree with them. That philosophy has served me well. In all of the recent high profile cases, a lack of respect led to someone being killed. And now, the very people that are calling for respect are doing all they can to not earn respect.



I am not a lawyer.