Mom doesn't like guns

[suthdj]

However, if my mother told me she didn't want me in her house with my gun I'd tell her fine, and, bye, I won't darken the door at your house in the future. If you want to see me you'll have to visit at my house or another location.

Are you really saying you wouldn't visit your own mother if you couldn't bring a gun? I really don't mean to cause offense, but with statements like that, I completely understand why the anti-gun crowd say some of the things they do about us. No peril on earth (let alone an almost infinitesimally small risk of being unable to adequately defend myself for a short period) could stand between me and my mother.

I would agree with VMI77, not all mothers are Mrs Clever, If my mother who raised me does not trust me with a gun in her home so be it life goes on. I dont have any issues with my mother either.

Maybe I am the one in left field here, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea of putting a gun before a mom. She carried you for 9 months and raised you to adulthood (and frankly beyond), but if she isn't comfortable with a gun in the house you are going to turn your back on her because you can't bear the thought of leaving your weapon in the car for a few hours? I really just can't fathom that line of thinking.

Well it's would not be turning our back on, it is just find a different way to visit and its not about leaving the gun behind I do it all the time at other locations. It is about mutual respect and trust. Now my mom also took me shooting the first time when I was 6-7 and owns her own little 22 semi-auto but also asked why I own an AR I said because I can She thinks it is a bad gun go figure.

[MotherBear]

My parents don't particularly care that I'm carrying. My mother-in-law (with whom I have a wonderful relationship starting well before any interest in her son crossed my mind) has respectfully requested that we not carry inside their house, and we respectfully abide by her request. We knew that was likely, but we chose to bring it up anyway because to us it felt wrong to stay in her house knowing she wouldn't like it and not have that conversation. We're welcome to bring the guns with us when we visit (it's always overnight) and lock them up in our room, and she doesn't have any objections to our carrying while out and about with them over the course of the visit. She asked us to give her the basic safety talk so that she's aware. She'll even babysit the kids while we go to the range (and my father-in-law has gone shooting with my husband a time or two). It doesn't bother her that we have guns in our house or that we carry in general. She'd just prefer we don't carry in her house, and we feel we should respect that. It's a personal call, but that's how things stand in our family and I'm OK with it.

[VMI77]

However, if my mother told me she didn't want me in her house with my gun I'd tell her fine, and, bye, I won't darken the door at your house in the future. If you want to see me you'll have to visit at my house or another location.

Are you really saying you wouldn't visit your own mother if you couldn't bring a gun? I really don't mean to cause offense, but with statements like that, I completely understand why the anti-gun crowd say some of the things they do about us. No peril on earth (let alone an almost infinitesimally small risk of being unable to adequately defend myself for a short period) could stand between me and my mother.

To me, respect is MUTUAL and flows both ways. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with any risk of not being able to defend myself. If you want to have a relationship without mutual respect that's your choice but it's not a choice I'll ever make. Fortunately for me that's not the kind of relationship I have to endure with family members. MY mother would never say she doesn't want me in her house with a gun because she respects me and trusts me. What kind of a mother doesn't trust her own son with a gun? Thankfully, not mine. Conversely, what kind of a son would you have to be that your own mother doesn't trust you with a gun? I feel sorry for you if you can't understand or enjoy such a relationship of mutual trust and respect.

I guess I just see this completely differently. I don't think this has anything to do with a mother not trusting a son - a whole heck of a lot of people are simply not comfortable around guns, regardless of how competent and trustworthy the handler. Not wanting the gun in the home doesn't mean they don't trust that person. They are simply afraid of guns. Let me give you another example. If your mother had a terrible snake phobia and you went everywhere with Herbie your pet snake, would you be off-put if she asked you not to bring Herbie in the house? Would it show a lack of trust in you? No - she just doesn't want to be around snakes because their presence scares her. If my mom asked me not to bring guns in her home (which she hasn't - she sleeps with a .357 revolver on her nightstand and carries a shotgun for bear protection when she gets the newspaper in the morning), my reaction wouldn't be "she doesn't trust or respect me, therefore, screw her - I am never coming to her home again" it would be "Gee, she has an irrational fear of guns. I am going to keep visiting her because I love her, but out of respect, I will leave my gun in the car so that I don't unnecessarily induce irrational fear in her."

That analogy doesn't quite work for me. For one thing, fear of snakes is biologically ingrained in many species. Chimps go bananas seeing videos of snakes. It's completely rational because there are snakes that can hurt you and we're programmed to avoid them rather that sort out which ones are dangerous and which ones aren't.

Now if you asked, would I refuse to visit if I couldn't bring my dog into her house? That might be different. That I understand. Maybe she doesn't want dog hair all over the house or is allergic. If I could visit and not bring the dog I would. For instance, if she lived close enough for me to leave my dog at home. However, there could be circumstances where this might be a problem so there might be times when I simply couldn't visit.

Fear of an inanimate object is irrational and quite possibly pathological. Is it healthy to indulge someone's pathology? I guess part of my problem here is that I've never been around anyone that fears inanimate objects to such a pathological degree. For personal reasons I'm not going to get into here, part of me would wonder if it was legitimate pathology or simply a method of manipulation and control. I've never experienced true pathology of this type but I have experienced such behavior as attempts to manipulate and control.If it's manipulation and control then the behavior is inherently disrespectful. This notion could be foreign to you because you've never had to deal intimately with any truly manipulative people. A person attempting to manipulate you does not respect you.

[AlaskanInTexas]

However, if my mother told me she didn't want me in her house with my gun I'd tell her fine, and, bye, I won't darken the door at your house in the future. If you want to see me you'll have to visit at my house or another location.

Are you really saying you wouldn't visit your own mother if you couldn't bring a gun? I really don't mean to cause offense, but with statements like that, I completely understand why the anti-gun crowd say some of the things they do about us. No peril on earth (let alone an almost infinitesimally small risk of being unable to adequately defend myself for a short period) could stand between me and my mother.

I would agree with VMI77, not all mothers are Mrs Clever, If my mother who raised me does not trust me with a gun in her home so be it life goes on. I dont have any issues with my mother either.

Maybe I am the one in left field here, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea of putting a gun before a mom. She carried you for 9 months and raised you to adulthood (and frankly beyond), but if she isn't comfortable with a gun in the house you are going to turn your back on her because you can't bear the thought of leaving your weapon in the car for a few hours? I really just can't fathom that line of thinking.

You keep going back to the Red Herring of not wanting to leave a weapon in the car for a few hours and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with that. What I can't fathom is this: if someone's relationship with mother is so good why doesn't she trust him with a gun in her home? For me it isn't an issue because my mother trusts me completely and my having a gun doesn't make her uncomfortable. Unless there is something wrong with her son and he isn't trustworthy I don't understand why a mother would be uncomfortable with her son having a gun? That makes zero sense to me. You're either trusted or you're not.

Let me state my thoughts again (or reread my last post). This has zero to do with trust. Zero. Some people are just afraid of the mere presence of guns and have very strong feelings about it. The gun could be a muzzleloader wielded by the pope or Charleton Heston. Their fear of having the gun around does not have anything to do with how much they trust the person handling the gun. Them asking you to keep guns out of their house does not mean they don't trust you. And interpreting it as a sleight against your trustworthiness shows that you are not putting yourself in their shoes. Let me give you an example. I have a sister with whom I am very close and she trusts me to be the guardian of her children should she pass away. If her boys are ever involved in shooting events, such as for Boy Scouts, she wants me to be there because she trusts no one in the world more with firearms than me. But she doesn't want guns in her house. I recognize her fear is irrational and has nothing to do with me. So I don't take a gun into her home. I didn't rush off in a huff saying that if she wants to see me she needs to trust me. I recognize that despite all my presentation of the facts, when I bring a gun around her she gets scared. I love her and don't want to induce fear in here when I can avoid it by simply leaving my gun in the car. On the other hand, she knows that when I come over, she needs to tell her son to quit catching snakes from the crick out back and chasing me around with them. We are both irrational and try to be accommodating to each other.

[VMI77]

My parents don't particularly care that I'm carrying. My mother-in-law (with whom I have a wonderful relationship starting well before any interest in her son crossed my mind) has respectfully requested that we not carry inside their house, and we respectfully abide by her request. We knew that was likely, but we chose to bring it up anyway because to us it felt wrong to stay in her house knowing she wouldn't like it and not have that conversation. We're welcome to bring the guns with us when we visit (it's always overnight) and lock them up in our room, and she doesn't have any objections to our carrying while out and about with them over the course of the visit. She asked us to give her the basic safety talk so that she's aware. She'll even babysit the kids while we go to the range (and my father-in-law has gone shooting with my husband a time or two). It doesn't bother her that we have guns in our house or that we carry in general. She'd just prefer we don't carry in her house, and we feel we should respect that. It's a personal call, but that's how things stand in our family and I'm OK with it.

That is more of a mutually respectful situation that I can understand and accept.

[SewTexas]

something to recognize -
as people get older, fears change. My mother-in-law, granted is 89 and has mild-to-moderate dementia, for example a year or two ago would kill any bug around the house including roaches. These days however, a "mostly dead" roach, I mean it's on it's back, not enough strength to kick it's legs, can hold her hostage.
She's always lived around guns, but now doesn't want to see them....that's fine, there is a gun safe so there are a couple of long guns in there that my daughter, who spends the night with her, can get to if needed.
Like I said, fears can change, accept that and respect that.....at some point, God willing, you'll be old too, maybe a roach will hold you hostage

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I said, I never had to face this issue with my parents because they died long before I could legally carry a handgun. I doubt my Mom would have cared, but that too is speculation.

I'm really going to irritate some folks here, but that's okay. My Mom, Dad and I were far closer than most kids and their parents. Mom was a saint, one of the finest, most caring, compassionate and supportive women I've ever known. Her mother was 180 degrees out of phase with Mom. She was an evil, mean hateful woman who lived to a ripe old age simply because it was illegal for her family to kill her. Everyone in the family hated her with a passion. Both of them were Moms, both had opinions and preferences. Simply being Mom doesn't mean they get they way about everything, at least in my view. One thing my parents taught me from a young age was that we have to live with the consequences of our decisions. That's a two-way street. Remember, if a Mom and son don't see each other because the son carries a gun, then that was a mutual decision, not a unilateral one. (I agree that would be an absurd result, but it would be a decision reached by both.)

Everyone is going to draw the line somewhere. I have a friend who was raised in an overly legalistic "Christian" home. (I won't disclose the denomination, so please don't ask.) As kids, he could wear shorts, but his sisters could not. If they rolled up the pant legs on their jeans too high, they were in big trouble. When the kids grew up, Mom wouldn't let her grown daughters come to her home unless they met her dress code. So too with the grandchildren. My friend and his sisters told her that if she wanted to see them and/or the grandchildren, it would be at their homes. I think it's a matter of where the line is drawn. If a son or daughter decides they will comply with Mom's wishes/demands that no guns come into her home, then that's fine. It is a legitimate decision. If another son or daughter decides that they will not meet that demand because they find it unreasonable, then that too is a legitimate decision. We need to remember that, as previously noted, not every Mom was June Cleaver.

I can envision very unique situations where the presence of a gun could be traumatic, but those are rare. One of my uncles killed himself with a handgun. (He had an inoperable brain tumor and was in constant agony.) If my aunt had not wanted to be around handguns, then I would respect her wishes because she would have a valid reason rather than a political position. I have to be honest about gun phobias; I don't believe they exist with any normal sane person. Fear is not the same thing as a phobia and fear can be overcome, if one desires.

Chas.

[C-dub]

I can certainly understand that there is a full gamut of moms and the relationships that children have with their mothers. I've seen both ends of that spectrum and have come to accept that it happens and may not be the choice of either side. Folks, let's not condemn anyone that does not or hasn't had the same kind of relationship with their mom or dad that the rest hasn't. It's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is and it may not be the fault of any our members here.

[VMI77]

However, if my mother told me she didn't want me in her house with my gun I'd tell her fine, and, bye, I won't darken the door at your house in the future. If you want to see me you'll have to visit at my house or another location.

Are you really saying you wouldn't visit your own mother if you couldn't bring a gun? I really don't mean to cause offense, but with statements like that, I completely understand why the anti-gun crowd say some of the things they do about us. No peril on earth (let alone an almost infinitesimally small risk of being unable to adequately defend myself for a short period) could stand between me and my mother.

I would agree with VMI77, not all mothers are Mrs Clever, If my mother who raised me does not trust me with a gun in her home so be it life goes on. I dont have any issues with my mother either.

Maybe I am the one in left field here, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea of putting a gun before a mom. She carried you for 9 months and raised you to adulthood (and frankly beyond), but if she isn't comfortable with a gun in the house you are going to turn your back on her because you can't bear the thought of leaving your weapon in the car for a few hours? I really just can't fathom that line of thinking.

You keep going back to the Red Herring of not wanting to leave a weapon in the car for a few hours and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with that. What I can't fathom is this: if someone's relationship with mother is so good why doesn't she trust him with a gun in her home? For me it isn't an issue because my mother trusts me completely and my having a gun doesn't make her uncomfortable. Unless there is something wrong with her son and he isn't trustworthy I don't understand why a mother would be uncomfortable with her son having a gun? That makes zero sense to me. You're either trusted or you're not.

Let me state my thoughts again (or reread my last post). This has zero to do with trust. Zero. Some people are just afraid of the mere presence of guns and have very strong feelings about it. The gun could be a muzzleloader wielded by the pope or Charleton Heston. Their fear of having the gun around does not have anything to do with how much they trust the person handling the gun. Them asking you to keep guns out of their house does not mean they don't trust you. And interpreting it as a sleight against your trustworthiness shows that you are not putting yourself in their shoes. Let me give you an example. I have a sister with whom I am very close and she trusts me to be the guardian of her children should she pass away. If her boys are ever involved in shooting events, such as for Boy Scouts, she wants me to be there because she trusts no one in the world more with firearms than me. But she doesn't want guns in her house. I recognize her fear is irrational and has nothing to do with me. So I don't take a gun into her home. I didn't rush off in a huff saying that if she wants to see me she needs to trust me. I recognize that despite all my presentation of the facts, when I bring a gun around her she gets scared. I love her and don't want to induce fear in here when I can avoid it by simply leaving my gun in the car. On the other hand, she knows that when I come over, she needs to tell her son to quit catching snakes from the crick out back and chasing me around with them. We are both irrational and try to be accommodating to each other.

OK, this example gets to the heart of the disagreement. We're interpreting behavior through two different lenses. I'm going to key off your example but I don't mean it personally since I don't know anything about you other than what you've said here. You're interpreting what appears to be irrational behavior as fear. My experience says manipulation, and that the professed fear is merely a tool. It's about being in control. For a female it's easier to exercise control by saying I'm afraid than by direct confrontation. What you see in this as being considerate on your part I see as being manipulated. Respect requires honesty, manipulation is inherently disrespectful.

Honestly, I'm going to have a hard time seeing it differently because I've never encountered any women, or men for that matter, where in the larger context of their lives and behavior there is any way to believe they're really irrationally afraid of an inanimate object. For instance, I've never heard of anyone saying they're afraid of knives and not allowing knives in their home. Or that they're afraid of baseball bats and not allowing baseball bats in their home.

[VMI77]

As I said, I never had to face this issue with my parents because they died long before I could legally carry a handgun. I doubt my Mom would have cared, but that too is speculation.

I'm really going to irritate some folks here, but that's okay. My Mom, Dad and I were far closer than most kids and their parents. Mom was a saint, one of the finest, most caring, compassionate and supportive women I've ever known. Her mother was 180 degrees out of phase with Mom. She was an evil, mean hateful woman who lived to a ripe old age simply because it was illegal for her family to kill her. Everyone in the family hated her with a passion. Both of them were Moms, both had opinions and preferences. Simply being Mom doesn't mean they get they way about everything, at least in my view. One thing my parents taught me from a young age was that we have to live with the consequences of our decisions. That's a two-way street. Remember, if a Mom and son don't see each other because the son carries a gun, then that was a mutual decision, not a unilateral one. (I agree that would be an absurd result, but it would be a decision reached by both.)

Everyone is going to draw the line somewhere. I have a friend who was raised in an overly legalistic "Christian" home. (I won't disclose the denomination, so please don't ask.) As kids, he could wear shorts, but his sisters could not. If they rolled up the pant legs on their jeans too high, they were in big trouble. When the kids grew up, Mom wouldn't let her grown daughters come to her home unless they met her dress code. So too with the grandchildren. My friend and his sisters told her that if she wanted to see them and/or the grandchildren, it would be at their homes. I think it's a matter of where the line is drawn. If a son or daughter decides they will comply with Mom's wishes/demands that no guns come into her home, then that's fine. It is a legitimate decision. If another son or daughter decides that they will not meet that demand because they find it unreasonable, then that too is a legitimate decision. We need to remember that, as previously noted, not every Mom was June Cleaver.

I can envision very unique situations where the presence of a gun could be traumatic, but those are rare. One of my uncles killed himself with a handgun. (He had an inoperable brain tumor and was in constant agony.) If my aunt had not wanted to be around handguns, then I would respect her wishes because she would have a valid reason rather than a political position. I have to be honest about gun phobias; I don't believe they exist with any normal sane person. Fear is not the same thing as a phobia and fear can be overcome, if one desires.

Chas.

Very well said. I experienced somewhat the opposite of your situation. My mom isn't a saint. She's not anywhere near the extremes you describe but we've been battling nearly all our lives...though most of that animosity has disappeared since my father died. OTOH, her mother was a saint, about the most wonderful woman I've ever met, and every time I think of her I pray that she could see through my immaturity and understand how much I loved and respected her.

[KD5NRH]

There are lots of nice women out there who like guns and would love to be mothers but can't for whatever reason. Why not adopt one of those?

[AlaskanInTexas]

OK, this example gets to the heart of the disagreement. We're interpreting behavior through two different lenses. I'm going to key off your example but I don't mean it personally since I don't know anything about you other than what you've said here. You're interpreting what appears to be irrational behavior as fear. My experience says manipulation, and that the professed fear is merely a tool. It's about being in control. For a female it's easier to exercise control by saying I'm afraid than by direct confrontation. What you see in this as being considerate on your part I see as being manipulated. Respect requires honesty, manipulation is inherently disrespectful.

Honestly, I'm going to have a hard time seeing it differently because I've never encountered any women, or men for that matter, where in the larger context of their lives and behavior there is any way to believe they're really irrationally afraid of an inanimate object. For instance, I've never heard of anyone saying they're afraid of knives and not allowing knives in their home. Or that they're afraid of baseball bats and not allowing baseball bats in their home.

It sounds like we have had some pretty different life experiences, which may account for our different take on things here. I can assure you that this sister is not being manipulative in the least. She just hasn't internalized the facts sufficiently to overcome her fear of guns. It's all very genuine. Maybe with time...

[AlaskanInTexas]

I have to be honest about gun phobias; I don't believe they exist with any normal sane person. Fear is not the same thing as a phobia and fear can be overcome, if one desires.

Chas.

I agree that fear of guns (except in some outlier cases) are not true irrational phobias. They are fears based on misinformation, power, and certain psychological phenomenon inherent in how we perceive risks with horrific outcomes even though they have minimal probabilities. I also agree that these fears can be untrained through education and experience. Where I diverge with a lot of gun owners - including many on this forum - is how we castigate fearful people for not being as "enlightened" about firearms as we are. We are often very dismissive of understandable concerns accompanied with deeply rooted emotions. Frankly, I think that we can be a little arrogant in how we interact with these people, to the detriment of our goals of expanding gun rights and the shooting sports.

And there have been some comments about how it is irrational to fear an inanimate object. I disagree to some extent on that. There is nothing irrational about having some apprehension around an object that with a few miscues by the wrong person (including yourself) could kill you. I think a little respectful fear is healthy.

[MadMonkey]

I have a friend who was raised in an overly legalistic "Christian" home. (I won't disclose the denomination, so please don't ask.) As kids, he could wear shorts, but his sisters could not.

Heh... my dad was a missionary/evangelist/pastor of multiple churches and traveled all over North and South America preaching. That being the case, as I grew up I've known people from every part of the Christian spectrum. At one Waco-style commune where he was asked to preach, even the men and boys were forbidden from wearing shorts. I raised some eyebrows since that was my preferred attire.

The same place didn't allow television, but my parents also hosted a Christian TV show for a while and one day when we arrived at the commune the leader's mentally challenged son ran up saying "Hey Mister *****, I saw you on TV last night!"

That cause a little stir amongst the followers who suddenly wondered why the Dear Leader was exempt from the No TV rules


...okay, got off track a little.

My mom and stepdad are both CHL holders, thank God, but I agree that moms shouldn't get away with anything just for being mom. That goes along the same lines of the people who say that family comes first over everything else, which I am also against... if someone in the family needs to be cut off, they get cut off.

If my mom said that she didn't want me to carry in her house (which she never would), I would say "That's fine. You can come visit ME from now on."

[VMI77]

And there have been some comments about how it is irrational to fear an inanimate object. I disagree to some extent on that. There is nothing irrational about having some apprehension around an object that with a few miscues by the wrong person (including yourself) could kill you. I think a little respectful fear is healthy.

There is a difference between fear of misuse and fear of the object in and of itself. Knowing that something can kill or injure you in your ignorance if you misuse it and being afraid of it merely existing are two different things. I have worked with electricity. It can kill you if you don't treat it with the proper respect and I definitely fear what it can do as I've seen the results of it. That doesn't mean I'm afraid to stand next to a piece of equipment energized at high voltage or to have electricity in my home --or to work with it for that matter, when exercising proper safety precautions. My wife has a respectful fear of electricity too and she doesn't work with it because she doesn't know much of anything about it and certainly not enough about it to do so safely.

I have apprehensions about performing a few miscues with a gun so I don't do that. I took the time to educate myself about guns before I handled them. There are a lot of dangerous tools out there and I wouldn't operate any of them without knowing what I was doing. I have a coworker who cut his fingers off with a table saw. Still, I'm not afraid to walk around a workshop full of tools that are just sitting there, including table saws. I wouldn't turn it on and mess with it if I didn't know how to use it. Chainsaws can be very dangerous. I didn't just grab a chainsaw and in complete ignorance try to start using it. I learned about how it operates and what is and is not safe first. But I can sit right next to a chainsaw and it doesn't scare me.

Has your sister ever been stopped by a cop for speeding? Was she quaking when he came up to her window? Is she afraid to violate any traffic laws because being stopped by the police is going to put her inches away from a gun? A big visible gun. Does she start to panic and turn around and leave if a cop stands next to her in line at the coffee shop or grocery store? If so, maybe's she is really phobic. If not she doesn't have a phobia she has a preference. I fell from a height when I was very young and I have acrophobia. A phobia is fear that is uncontrollable. It prevents normal functioning. Someone that really had a gun phobia would be having a panic attack during a traffic stop. Gun phobia that doesn't include the kind of reactions I mention...not buying it.