Todays Schools

[ntexaschl]

[quote="Keith"] It says 74% of kids today could not get into the military because of obesity,failure of the exam or disability.

Hope that I'm not stepping on anybody's toes. I watched that report on the television. But, "disability" wasn't one of the reasons given. Rather, it was "dishonesty".

[srothstein]

I just want to bring up a point in favor of most of today's kids. The report is not accurate in several ways. The first is that it compares what it thinks today's averages are to what the stated requirements for entry are. It does not include the waiver process for weight and it does not say how far over the kids are.

It also implies this is a current problem. We do not truly know if this is a current problem or one that has been constant for 50 years. I know that part of the reason for the change in recent years has been the Army raising its standards. During the Viet Nam era, we had a draft to force people into the military. When we went all volunteer, we set some low standards to help ensure we had enough bodies (diplomas were not required as one example). As time went on, we found that the enlistment rate was fairly high most of the time, and especially so during poor economic times.

After 9/11/2001, we had a surplus of enlistees. The Army raised their standards to help become more selective. With the recent economic troubles, the Army again raised the standards (no diploma, no entry for the most part, not even with a GED). There were enough enlistees that met the standards that recruiter was allowed to sign anyone new up in September, only deal with previously contracted and scheduled dates. The Army had me their goals that early in the fiscal year.

One of the reasons I know about this is my third daughter is currently in the enlistment process. She has been wanting to do this for years and planned on signing her contract for the reserves on her 17th birthday. We could not get recruiters to even talk to her other than in real general terms until this month. She took the ASVAB a week after her birthday and should be going to MEPS (entry processing) for the National Guard next week. But we still have to find her an open slot to get an MOS assigned.

She makes the third of my children to enlist (one son still in the reserves, one daughter back out of Active and in school). All of them had friends that had no trouble enlisting also.

I think we are again looking at the small 10 percent or so who cause the trouble and generalizing when the 80% are really good kids. The media plays up the bad ones also.

I hate to say it is a conspiracy, but the part about how many are overweight is really bothering me. I think it is a group trying to control people, and they have decided what we eat is their business. Part of it is their loathing of the consumption of the US. They want to share more of the wealth. Well, I get to eat what I can afford and my kids will to. If they are over someone else's ideal weight that is too bad. I will worry about the health aspects of it for my family, but that is all that I really worry about on it.

[bdickens]

The world had been nearing the end for 2000 years now.

[The Annoyed Man]

First, let me start by saying that I am very impressed with the current crop of teenagers. For the most part, I find them industrious, willing to work hard to get ahead, and imaginative. Despite nearly 9 years now of an increasingly unpopular war on two fronts, they continue to enlist in the military with pride in their nation and a desire to serve it. That said, I also freely admit that my contact with teenagers these days is pretty much limited to those who attend my church and those whom I encounter as employees in local businesses. In my work experience, it's the folks in their mid 20s through early 30s in the workplace who seem to have that sense of entitlement that older folks like me find so irritating. But also, that was mostly back in California, where everybody thinks they're entitled to something.

About the idea of being rewarded for doing what is expected, well I have two perspectives on it. When I graduated from high school, I somewhat peevishly asked my mother why it was that friends of mine were given a car or some other expensive gift when they graduated, but all I got was this lousy Timex watch? She said, "we gave you the watch because you need a watch, not because you graduated. We didn't give you a graduation gift because you're expected to graduate. It's what you're supposed to do."

OTH, my clients pay me (reward me) for doing what they expect me to do. Even if you are someone's employee, you get paid (rewarded) for fulfilling a basic expectation of work performed. If you don't believe that is true, then try NOT fulfilling your employer's basic expectations. This is the essence of capitalism.

But in principle, I agree with the notion that there are certain minimum standards that productive citizens are expected to fulfill as their minimum requirements tasting the benefits of society, and there is no special reward for fulfilling them. It's what we're supposed to do.

[Oldgringo]

TAM wrote:

She said, "we gave you the watch because you need a watch, not because you graduated. We didn't give you a graduation gift because you're expected to graduate. It's what you're supposed to do."

Yepper, I remember quite well the gray hardshell Samsonite suitcase I received from my parents as I graduated from high school.

[KD5NRH]

Yepper, I remember quite well the gray hardshell Samsonite suitcase I received from my parents as I graduated from high school.

It doesn't quite count as a gift when you have to trade your house key for it

[troglodyte]

I thank God that not all parents or teachers are complacent this way.

As a teacher, and parent, who is battling this at school, I thank you for your thoughtfulness.

I apologize; I should probably have worded that a bit better, i.e. "Many kids nowadays..." (unfortunately, I see the results of this quite frequently near the border.)

I do know for a fact that there are still good teachers in the schools. And there are still parents who really do care what kind of education (all education, not just academics) our kids are getting. IMO it's one of the reasons why this country hasn't collapsed yet. We may even be in the majority. But as the saying goes, "It's the squeaky wheel that gets greased." I think we need to learn how to squeak louder; we're getting drowned out.

Teaching isn't an easy career.

quidni - No apology necessary. It seems too often teachers get hammered, and in all fairness some, many, most probably should be. That being said, there are a number of us out here that are trying to raise the kids right. I'm not always perfect, and parents may disagree with me at times, but know that I am trying to raise the kids in my classes up to be good Christian (at least in principle if not in faith) adults.

And my apologies, I'm a little testy. Last week was one of those weeks where the parents want Jr. to pass even when Jr. fails all the tests. The extracurricular activities are more important than academics. Twelve weeks into the semester and now it, all of a sudden, becomes important as basketball season begins.

[roberts]

Our kids are not going to make it if we don't teach them to stand on there own 2 feet and how to be a good dad and husband.

Geez, that would guarantee that my daughter would turn out seriously weird.

There's always politics.

[Zee]

I admit I've benefitted from the slack standards. I've worked for several agencies where I've gotten better than average raises and loads of respect. I honestly believe it was because I showed up on time, stayed the whole day, and did what they paid me to do. I was some kind of shing star!

[HankB]

My son is in 7 th grade and the other day he brings home now get this a rubber duck. I'm like what the heck is this for. He tells me dad I received this as did all the kids for turning in there homework on time all week.

A rubber duck?

FOR A SEVENTH GRADER?!?!?

Putting aside the issue of rewarding a kid simply for turning in their homework on time all week, and thinking back to when I was in 7th grade . . . I would have been highly insulted to have been given a "reward" that was appropriate for a kid half my age.

Infantile.

[TexasGal]

Don't get me started. I think the time has come to take back education through conservative schools where learning what it takes to make an honest and honorable living gets more attention than carrying a ball, discovering your sexual orientation, or being brainwashed by the liberal agenda. I'd love it if my school taxes could actually be diverted to private schools if I chose. I'd far rather the local Christian school got the money.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

One of the most depressing aspects I see in today's schools is the all-day
presence of an SRO (School Resource Officer) on campus.

This is a fully sworn LEO whose beat is the school. He/she spends all day
there, armed, with a police vehicle parked in front of the school.

Are things so out of control that we have to have armed LEO's
running interference for the principals who used to give out detentions as
proper punishment?

On a wholly different subject: We may believe that obesity today is getting
bad, but I recall that during the Vietnam War, army surgeons working on wounded
soldiers and devil dogs turned up many instances of cholesterol-clogged arteries.
Even Vietnam era eating habits had started us down the unhealthy road.

SIA

[Keith]

Since this seems to be a hot topic I will add one more. My son had a choice to take physical fitness or essentials living as an elective class. I thought EL may be a good class but my son asked to take PF due to wanting to stay in shape. We work out alot together but with homework and busy schedules is not allways easy. So we agreed and he took PF. I was thinking essentials living would show things like balancing check books,living with budgets and how to cook. Well in the schools eyes it also includes how to give a nail manicure. The boys had to do this also. My sons friend came over to my son and said you are so lucky you took physical fitness. My son told me this and again I was shocked!!!! For the teatchers who agree that this is wrong I cant even imagine how frustrating this has to be for you.

[Drewthetexan]

Don't get me started. I think the time has come to take back education through conservative schools where learning what it takes to make an honest and honorable living gets more attention than carrying a ball, discovering your sexual orientation, or being brainwashed by the liberal agenda. I'd love it if my school taxes could actually be diverted to private schools if I chose. I'd far rather the local Christian school got the money.

One of the most depressing aspects I see in today's schools is the all-day
presence of an SRO (School Resource Officer) on campus.

This is a fully sworn LEO whose beat is the school. He/she spends all day
there, armed, with a police vehicle parked in front of the school.

Are things so out of control that we have to have armed LEO's
running interference for the principals who used to give out detentions as
proper punishment?

SIA

SRO's have been around since at least the mid 90's when I entered public high school, and yes, they are necessary, then as now, unfortunately. Detention is no deterrent to students who don't want to be there, especially ones who are on track to become criminals. Expulsion? Great! That's what they want. There are dangerous, violent students at public schools. Not necessarily Klebold and Harris types, just thugs who go through the motions until they end up in alternative schools or drop out.

Students who want to be there, or are at least willing to jump through the hoops for 4 years without causing [too much] trouble fear detention. Actually, I think they just follow the rules without regard to the consequences of not doing so. Same as most law abiding citizens.

As for myself, I never feared detention. When I broke the rules it was usually a game to me, like playing pranks or trying to sneak out of the school during general assemblies and sneaking back in when they were over. If I got caught, no big - I served my time (at school and at home) and went about my life. And detention was never nearly as bad as what my mom would dish out. Anyone else ever scrubbed the outside of the house with a toothbrush? We had the cleanest wood siding in the neighborhood! I do still have my permanent hall pass that I tricked a teacher into signing - which solved a lot of detention and housecleaning problems during my senior year.

As a product of both public schools and a private christian school, I can say I hated both - but for different reasons. There are tradeoffs, but I can say without a doubt that I never felt threatened at the private school. I was always watching my back at the public school, and I made friends with tough guys who'd watch out for me too. Violence aside, I don't know which was a better environment for me, personally, to be in. At the private school, I was really put off by some of the lip service and role playing some of my peers were putting on, and the hypocrisy was so rampant that my opinion of religion on the whole still hasn't recovered. It ultimately impacted my performance at the school. At the public schools, I really was dealing with some of the dregs of society, and my overwhelming dislike for how public schools work. Call me arrogant, elitist, or whatever, but catering to the weakest links at the expense of the brightest students only hurts everyone in the grand scheme of things. We got to learn relevant, useful things at the private school.

[Abraham]

How about being rewarded when you fail because without one your feelings may be hurt?

Or, give everyone the same passing grade for the same reason?

The list of this sort of nonsense is endless in public school. Self-esteem is primary - all else secondary.

Then one day, our public school boy or girl enters the real world and all that "over riding, feel good - self esteem garbage" (without actually earning self-esteem) comes home to roost!

Oh dear, I didn't get hired because I'm functionally illiterate? Now, that aint right.

Car wash, here I come!

Or, yes, I was hired, but they soon discovered I've no initiative as my sense of competitiveness was brain washed out of me, and now I'm stuck without a gold star or rubber duck to comfort me.