Thank You!

[longtooth]

Longtooth,
I noticed that you were a preacher and I'm sure you get this question all the time, but I'm going to ask anyway. Do you ever feel like carrying is a sign of not having faith that God will provide safety? I know Jesus's diciples carried swords, but they really didn't need them; they were walking with Christ. Do you think they were carrying because they weren't all in with the idea that Christ was who he said he was? Do you think they wore life preservers when Christ calmed the stormy waters? I sometimes struggle with this and didn't know if you had some good advice or scripture that I could lean on when I began to feel this way. I'm still going to carry because I refuse to allow my family and myself to be helpless victims, but sometimes this nags at me. Thansk Teach22

First the practical temporal answer to your ?s
I do carry & when someone asks why a preacher carries I tell them, because there is not a robber, street thug, drug addict, or truck jacker that ever stuck a gun or knife in soeones face & said, "give me your money & keys, aaahh, aahh, unless you are a preacher.

Biblical answer in the 3 high points of the Word & I assure you this is a continuing chain thruogh the Word & not 3 separate links spread over the days of the men of God.
Abraham was the friend of God, chosen to receive the covenant of the promiced son, the Father of our Faith, He was the leader of the day. Gen 14:14 his family was taken captive by the armies of war. He armed 318 trained servants & went after them. Man of God, friend of God, father of our faith & he saw that his servants were trained w/ weapons.
My prayerful oppinion though not stated is:
This arming was actually an "arming up" of those ready to go to battle. High threat perception today. He did not leave the women, children & other servants back in camp unprotected. Abraham was the friend of God & a trained fighter when he had to be.

David - Short & to the point. Described as a man after Gods own heart. Linage of Christ as Redeemer. He carried a sword & used it well. Before he had a sword he had a sling & trained w/ it. Killed a bear & lion. When he got a sword he used the better weapon. Arm w/ the best weapon you can have or can get & learn to use it w/ regular practice & training.

Jesus to the disciples just before the cross. Luke 22:35. When I sent you out w/o purse, script, or shoes, lacked ye anything. No Lord. Reference to Luke 9 sending out 2X2. Also said no staff. Poor mans weapon as well as walking. W/o anything they learned to walk by faith & see the power of God to protect.

V. 36 - Now I say take everything you have & if you do not have a sword sell your coat & get one. Translate this into Deep East Texas English is You know how to walk by faith now so take the resourses you have & still walk by faith. Use the skills you have to meet all the dangers of the world they lived in, & it was a violent day.
This is the only time in the Word that Jesus told anyone to sell something essential that would be used every day for cover & warmth, & go buy something else that that maybe might not be needed.

I walk by faith carry a 1911 sword. Just as Abraham w/ only 318 men, trusted God to deliver his family out of the hands of 4 Armies of the War between the Kings, so I trust Jesus to deliver my family w/ the arms I have & the training He has given me.
Just as David trusted God to guide his rock to Goliath's head, I trust Him to guide my bullet if needed to deliver this nation from terrorism & tyranny if it falls my lot in life.

Arming self & training is an instruction of Jesus. Admitted that it is not a command to train 10hrs a day in the art of fighting so, "no one will mess w/ me or my family."
I am obedient to Jesus & trust that you do the same.
LT

[Teach22]

Longtooth,
Beautiful!!! Thank you for that. I've never really thought of it as an instruction from Jesus. Thats actually one of the easier things he asks me to do. I love it!

[Teach22]

Welcome Teach,
I Private Messeged/PMd you a welcome too.

Thank you RPB! This is exactly why I love this sight. It gives me the information to be corageous in what is right. With the crap society spews out, it's so easy for the black and white to become gray. Thanks again, you have helped me tremendously!

[Oldgringo]

Teach22 wrote:

...it's so easy for the black and white to become gray...

Actually, black AND white does make gray...thank goodness. "Gray" is what allows us the freedom to choose our religions, schools, speech, vocations, avocations, guns, movies, TV programs, news sources, elected reps, etc., etc.

Welcome aboard.

[Dragonfighter]

Longtooth, though I have often used those same references and the analogous "shepherding" to explain the duty of defending your family. But I do not believe I have read a more concise and well constructed apology. Well done. Be advised, you may be plagiarized.

[RPB]

If I may add to Longtooth's very accurate and well stated post ...

Continuing on down to verse 38 in Luke 22 we have ...

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

So, you have your gun, and backup gun (BUG)

(I carry a spare/BUG to toss to any of the Deacons (also CHLs) if any of theirs jam/fail/run out of ammo etc.... just in case)

[Dragonfighter]

I remember shortly after the Wedgwood shooting in Fort Worth, a couple of guys at work asked me, "What would happen if a man like that came in shooting at your church?" I didn't even look up from my coffee and simply replied,"There'd be at least five returning fire."

[joe817]

I remember shortly after the Wedgwood shooting in Fort Worth, a couple of guys at work asked me, "What would happen if a man like that came in shooting at your church?" I didn't even look up from my coffee and simply replied,"There'd be at least five returning fire."

Amen!

[RPB]

I remember shortly after the Wedgwood shooting in Fort Worth, a couple of guys at work asked me, "What would happen if a man like that came in shooting at your church?" I didn't even look up from my coffee and simply replied,"There'd be at least five returning fire."

Amen!

ditto

I just got home from church, and no telling who was or wasn't armed by looking, but I had a Keltec P11, a Taurus PT-92 with laser and spare mag, an AMT backup and 2 spare mags, a Diamondback DB380, a NAA Guardian .380 with laser and spare 10rd mag, and a Seecamp .32 (Yes I know ... I had SIX, and Jesus said "two is enough" [Luke 22:38] but 2 CHL Deacons were going to Hospitals after Church to visit the sick, and didn't want to bother disarming later, so I carried two each for each of them today also, since they brought none) Plus we have a member who is retired LEO with his 1911 .45 and I have no idea what the ladies have in their purses <wink wink> Besides the Deacons' wives, we have a lot of female CHLs that attend.

[wgoforth]

Hello Teach and welcome. I also am a minister at a church of Christ in Brownwood, having labored 10 years in Abilene and 6 years in Vernon. My oldest daughter lives in Wichita and works at Pets Smart there.

Lots of preachers here on the list, and being a CHL forum, we obviously carry. I understand your nagging questions, and had had some myself in years past, but since are fully answered for me. There have already been some very good answers given, but thought I would add a few of mine.

Matt 24:43 "But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into."

Luke 11:21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace."

Consider that Jesus made a whip of cords and drove out the money changers (law breakers) from the temple by force (JN 2:15). Thus, He used force to drive thieves from the house of worship. If we ask the question WWJD? to those who would steal (even in church assemblies) may we not follow His example?

Hope these things help.

If I can offer a thought here.... when you pull a gun, you need to be 100% committed...because the bad guy is going to be. He will have nothing to lose. So you need to be as committed as he. If the nagging feeling causes even a slight delay in action, it might not go well. Think scenarios through... I know you are ready to defend your family.... but even if it is a 16 year old kid? A woman?

Meditate upon it all in light of scripture and your conscious and consider all possible scenarios being prepared to act on them so you are not taken by surprise.

Wayne

[Teach22]

Hello Teach and welcome. I also am a minister at a church of Christ in Brownwood, having labored 10 years in Abilene and 6 years in Vernon. My oldest daughter lives in Wichita and works at Pets Smart there.

Lots of preachers here on the list, and being a CHL forum, we obviously carry. I understand your nagging questions, and had had some myself in years past, but since are fully answered for me. There have already been some very good answers given, but thought I would add a few of mine.

Matt 24:43 "But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into."

Luke 11:21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace."

Consider that Jesus made a whip of cords and drove out the money changers (law breakers) from the temple by force (JN 2:15). Thus, He used force to drive thieves from the house of worship. If we ask the question WWJD? to those who would steal (even in church assemblies) may we not follow His example?

Hope these things help.

If I can offer a thought here.... when you pull a gun, you need to be 100% committed...because the bad guy is going to be. He will have nothing to lose. So you need to be as committed as he. If the nagging feeling causes even a slight delay in action, it might not go well. Think scenarios through... I know you are ready to defend your family.... but even if it is a 16 year old kid? A woman?

Meditate upon it all in light of scripture and your conscious and consider all possible scenarios being prepared to act on them so you are not taken by surprise.

Wayne

Wayne
I truly appreciate your thoughts and wisdom on this subject. In truth, unless we are battle tested, I believe none of us knows just how we will respond when the time comes. All the tough talk, hours of training, and extra magazines won't mean a pile of beans unless we have the courage and where with all to respond when the time comes. That is what I pray for from God.I pray that he won't just guide the bullet, but guide the shooter as well. I pray that he will make my senses keen and my aim true. This is where "I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me". The nagging feeling comes from the huge responsibility of carrying a weapon that can end someone else's life and possibly change mine forever. In fact, if I didn't have those nagging feelings, I'm not sure I would carry at all. I've seen guys that carry with the idea their going to be some Rambo or Die Hard Bruce Willis. Thats not who I am or who I want to be. I'm just a regular guy who realizes the evil that exsists in the real world, and I know I can't come to gun fight with my fists (I'm not real sure my fists would be much good in a fist fight either). I believe in doing all that I can to prepare (meditating on scenarios, spending time at the range, building muscle memory, defensive training)But in the end, God will be the one to sort it out. My CHL instructor was in a gun fight that ended with the bg dead. The story he told was of fear, courage, and the instinct to live, not nagging questions over right or wrong, just survival. He gave the credit to God for guiding his speech and his hand. This is how I believe it would go for most of us guys too. When I pull my gun, it will be out of 100% commitment to survival. Thanks again for your imput and God Bless Teach22

[Skiprr]

This Topic is one of the reasons I so love this Forum.

Thank you, Longtooth and wgoworth.

Our own TraCoun presented a well-researched class about self-defense under the eye of God at the last Texas CHL Forum Day at PSC. He echoed many of LT's and Wayne's comments.

Since TraCoun's was a planned, studied presentation (delving, also, into the Word as It was written in ancient Greek and Hebrew), I hope we have the opportunity to see his presentation again, perhaps at the TSRA roadshow events.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Hi Teach22, welcome to the forum! And thank YOU for posting!

I look forward to your future posts and what you can add to the forum.

What part of this great State do you hail from? And before Surprise_I'm_armed can accost you, what guns do you have and carry?

(sorry SIA. Just had to get that in).

Teach22 - Welcome aboard brother. We have both gun nuts and gun enthusiasts here. You'll like it.

joe817 - Wow, I take a day or two off around the New Year's from visiting the forum
and you steal my usual questions - I think you are lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut!! :-)

SIA

[joe817]

joe817 - Wow, I take a day or two off around the New Year's from visiting the forum
and you steal my usual questions - I think you are lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut!! :-)

SIA

Good one SIA! I'll have to remember that one! Hey! I apologized in advance!

[longtooth]

All of the above are very true. I have used each of them in the Word over time. Simply did not have the time to put them all in & comment.

For those that can use it:

I do not copyrite any thing. use what you need & save the rest for later.

W/ all the other posts it is easy to see that this is not a 3 point proof but a thread through the Word.
LT