Two stabbed at Houston gun range parking lot

[C-dub]

Here is what a witness said really happened..


NOT WHAT HAPPENED! I was there when it happened.. ONE guy was breaking into a company vehicle. owner of vehicle came out and saw him in his van, he opened the door to slam it into the guys face, they fought for a few moments, with the horn going off, ppl came outside. the thief ran, the guy that found him in his van was screaming "SHOOT HIM!!" and a younger guy and others chased this guy down the street and the younger guy stabbed the thief. there were not multiple people. this is why i hate this news group, this is not the only story they have gotten wrong and im sure it wont be the last.

And by news group you mean this forum or KHOU?

[Ericstac]

Here is what a witness said really happened..


NOT WHAT HAPPENED! I was there when it happened.. ONE guy was breaking into a company vehicle. owner of vehicle came out and saw him in his van, he opened the door to slam it into the guys face, they fought for a few moments, with the horn going off, ppl came outside. the thief ran, the guy that found him in his van was screaming "SHOOT HIM!!" and a younger guy and others chased this guy down the street and the younger guy stabbed the thief. there were not multiple people. this is why i hate this news group, this is not the only story they have gotten wrong and im sure it wont be the last.

And by news group you mean this forum or KHOU?

Pretty sure she meant the Khou.com group. I doubt she even knows about texaschlforum

[C-dub]

Here is what a witness said really happened..


NOT WHAT HAPPENED! I was there when it happened.. ONE guy was breaking into a company vehicle. owner of vehicle came out and saw him in his van, he opened the door to slam it into the guys face, they fought for a few moments, with the horn going off, ppl came outside. the thief ran, the guy that found him in his van was screaming "SHOOT HIM!!" and a younger guy and others chased this guy down the street and the younger guy stabbed the thief. there were not multiple people. this is why i hate this news group, this is not the only story they have gotten wrong and im sure it wont be the last.

And by news group you mean this forum or KHOU?

Pretty sure she meant the Khou.com group. I doubt she even knows about texaschlforum

Ahh, yes, of course. Now I realize that was a quote from someone else.

[discoqueen]

A gun range parking lot? That would be a target rich environment for crooks. I wonder why the victim went out and confronted them with a knife when he was at a shooting range? Did anybody present have a handgun or CHL?

Some ranges don't allow legally concealed guns in/out. I can think of one in Plano that has a policy that states "All guns must be unloaded and in a case." Concealed means concealed would be the smart thing, but if you only have one carry piece, you're out of luck there.

If within touching distance, a knife properly wielded can be far more damaging than a handgun. Easy to rip open very large holes that bleed profusely.

Agree. Also, within touching distance, the likelihood of deploying a gun and being effective with it is slim. A gun is a distance tool - you have to have the room to deploy it.

True, but my handgun is quicker to deploy than my knife.

Maybe you're carrying the wrong knife?
I carry one of these....in addition to a pocket knife. The Bear Claw is for SD purposes only, the pocket knife gets used for everything else. And yes, I have trained extensively on how to use it in a SD situation.

[philip964]

Ok, now we have an entirely new view of what happened and the legalities possibly involved.

First I am assuming "NOT WHAT HAPPENED" refers not to what follows in the statement, but what was in the news article.

I am assuming this did not occur at night, but we don't know.

Question? Person is fighting with robber in his van after it is broken into. Person says "shoot him". Can you legally?

Robber runs away, obviously you can follow, but can you legally tackle and stab?

Does it make any difference, lets say if Person whose van was broken into says "he has my wallet". What if the robber leaves with nothing?

Are we into Joe Horn territory?

[C-dub]

My knife is a folder and easily accessible, but I still have to get it out and unfold it. It doesn't take long, but I think the gun is quicker. Getting it out of the holster is easier than getting the knife out of the pocket and the gun is already to go, while the knife still must be unfolded.

The sign that says all weapons must be unloaded and cased is not a 30.06 sign. They hold CHL classes there and know this. I have shot in there multiple times and even asked once if this pertains to a CHL carrying and they just asked me if I had seen a 30.06 sign somewhere.

[discoqueen]

My knife is a folder and easily accessible, but I still have to get it out and unfold it. It doesn't take long, but I think the gun is quicker. Getting it out of the holster is easier than getting the knife out of the pocket and the gun is already to go, while the knife still must be unfolded.

Which is why I carry the fixed blade for SD - no unfolding necessary. :) YMMV, of course.

The sign that says all weapons must be unloaded and cased is not a 30.06 sign. They hold CHL classes there and know this. I have shot in there multiple times and even asked once if this pertains to a CHL carrying and they just asked me if I had seen a 30.06 sign somewhere.

Ah, true. I haven't been back there since getting my CHL, so I didn't think of that. If we're talking about the same place, they rarely have RO's on the line, but if an RO sees you un-holstering or re-holstering, do they just look the other way? Not that I plan on going back there any time soon....I was just curious.

[JALLEN]

Maybe you're carrying the wrong knife?
I carry one of these....in addition to a pocket knife. The Bear Claw is for SD purposes only, the pocket knife gets used for everything else. And yes, I have trained extensively on how to use it in a SD situation.

What kind of training for knife use is available? Every time I have asked about it, I can never get any specific information. It's as if your grandmother has to show you or you are forever Simply Out of Luck.

[discoqueen]

Maybe you're carrying the wrong knife?
I carry one of these....in addition to a pocket knife. The Bear Claw is for SD purposes only, the pocket knife gets used for everything else. And yes, I have trained extensively on how to use it in a SD situation.

What kind of training for knife use is available? Every time I have asked about it, I can never get any specific information. It's as if your grandmother has to show you or you are forever Simply Out of Luck.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like there is much locally. My training was through my self defense academy, and we train on defense against knives as well, among other things.
I have read great reviews about the Tactical Defense Institute out of Ohio, but not many people have the time or the funds to travel to Ohio for knife training.

[RHenriksen]

The news article was updated at 11:12am today (Feb 24):

http://www.khou.com/news/local/HSCO-Two ... 65931.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"SPRING, Texas – Four suspects were arrested Saturday evening after an incident in the parking lot of a shooting range in northeast Harris County, according to the Precinct 4 Constable’s Office.
Lt. David Escobar with Pct. 4 said that at about 5:30 p.m. Saturday, a 50-year-old man was walking out of a Carter’s Country Shooting Facility in the 6200 block of Treaschwig Road when he noticed a 21-year-old man was in his van.

[RHenriksen]

And the Chronicle paints a more forgiving picture of the good Samaritan who wielded the knife:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 303582.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[03Lightningrocks]

Bad guys would have gotten themselves shot if this were me. I guess they are lucky none of the people nearby were CHLs that had their carry gun on them. I always reload my SD rounds and reconceal before heading back to my vehicle.

^^^^This.

Make that three of us. I always leave the range with my concealed carry loaded and ready.

[hillfighter]

Escobar said the bystander was then blindsided by one of the 21-year-old’s three alleged accomplices, who pistol-whipped him in the head.

When more people from the store saw what was happening, they jumped in to hold down the suspects, which included three men and one woman. All four suspects are in their early 20s, and have been charged.

Hopefully the charge is aggravated assault for using a gun to attack their victims.

[Skiprr]

What kind of training for knife use is available? Every time I have asked about it, I can never get any specific information. It's as if your grandmother has to show you or you are forever Simply Out of Luck.

Any school teaching traditional Filipino Arnis is a great source of blade training. That said, I’d recommend a style that starts with “Dago y Espada,” not with two long sticks, i.e., “Escrima” (a misinformed term, but we’ll let it be for now).

But Arnis isn’t a quick-study for the use of a blade. It’s fairly comprehensive as a blade-practical martial art, but it requires significant time in training.

For me, Craig Reynolds, aka SouthNarc, offers the best carry-blade training that can be had in a one- or two-day class. He’s a proponent of the P’kal reverse-blade technique.

It’s not what I learned when I was young and studied Arnis for six years in the Philippines, but it’s what I advocate now. It’s imminently more practical in urban, ECQB situations, and can be employed with minimal training.

Gabe Suarez also offers tactical knife courses. His curriculum is driven by an experienced blade tactician and includes reverse-blade techniques.

Both Reynolds and Suarez move their courses around to different states. Might be worth a look.

[jmra]

I don't think I'm chasing anyone anywhere. Once they turn tail and run for me it becomes a police issue. My kids are too young to lose their Dad in a fight with a drugged out crazy or to jail for using "excessive force".